I need some help on this one guys. Yesterday I went in for tuning and ended up being disappointed. Motor is a GSR fully built with Skunk2 stage 3s w/ a little over 13:1 cr, I was told there might be the chance it could be tuned on 91 for driving on the street since this motor is in a street car, but while tuning it the tuner was having to back the timing off so much that it was not even able to have any throttle applied and it was pinging. Tuner is telling me it needs to be tuned on race gas of at least 100 octane. My question is does anybody have any set up similar to mine that they could give me advice on where to go, trying to use Hondata with this set up, also it has 370cc injectors and a 195 fuel pump so its not like there is not enough fuel, just not knowing where to start for tuning, any help is appreciated, also ask questions about the set up to help you think of what to do, I need help, desperate, thanks.

 

anybody?

 

Add some Xylene or Toluene. :-)

What are you using to tune. And honestly, (although it has been done) I would run it on race gas only as your tuner suggested.

 

100 octane seems to be the only way to go...

it sounds like your car won;t even idle w/o pinging...if so you will either blow it up or wash your rings out before long...it sounds like you should tow the car to the dyno...if that's not what your doing already...

 

so far I have had an ECU that has allowed the car to run, I havent gone crazy on it or anything and I have been running 91 octane on the motor @ 15 degrees of timing and it hasnt pinged at all, it only started yesterday when the tuner was doing his thing and he said he couldnt get a tune on it for 91 octane so we threw the 5 gallons of 100 I had brought with me and he said the same for that, so basically I left after a whole day 9am to 8pm without a tuned car and my motor got beat up cause while he was tuning it it was pingin like crazy, you could hear it. Im just looking for someone to give me advice that has a similar set up and what they did. So far I havent been able to find anyone.

 

bump cause this car needs to run at full potential again!!

 

You are not going to get a 13-1 engine to run happily on 91 or even 100 octane gas unless you lower the timing curve accross the board in the ECU program. Part throttle timing is about 40 degrees, you need about 31. 13-1 is for race cars, go read the WD-40 shoot-out builds, all the builders went 11.5-1 for 91 octane, maybe you know more than they do.

 

yikes...lower compression or run a bit more then 100oct...just have your tuner make two programs for your ecu....one for the track when you can run c16 or something like it...and then have him do one for fuel economy and reliablity....now ya your gonna have to pull a lot of timing to do it....but at least your still gonna be able to drive it on pump gas for normal use...just dont race it on 91....not supposed ot be racing on the street anyway =P

i ended up with a bit more compression then i wanted with the ctr pistons i used in my build so this is what i ended up doing...

 

J+S safeguard knock/retard...
Individual cylinder, user definable timing retard and re-advancement...
Good stuff. This is what Ill be using soon

 

You could also try retarding the intake so less air (opening late into the intake cycle)is compressed effectively lowering your dynamic compression ratio...Just some theory...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PyroProblem &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">J+S safeguard knock/retard...
Individual cylinder, user definable timing retard and re-advancement...
Good stuff. This is what Ill be using soon</TD></TR></TABLE>

A J&S is only a partial fix for too much compression and not enough octane. It's like putting a band-aid on a rifle wound.

 

I had this problem as well. No matter how much timing you pull out on pump gas, it isn't going to run well with out over 100 octane in it. It is stupid to build anything over an 11:5-12 compression car or so. Honestly if you can't put pump gas in it, it is worthless as a street car. That is just my opinion though.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93turbo16 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Honestly if you can't put pump gas in it, it is worthless as a street car. That is just my opinion though.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree totally. What's the fun in having a car if you can only go 50 miles from home in it because it has a tiny gas tank and you need a steady diet of race gas?

 

tuning can help a motor out a lot as far as octane goes....13. is kind of high, but doable....

thicker head gasket maybe?
hondata?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by soLSvtec12kcraze &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">tuning can help a motor out a lot as far as octane goes....13. is kind of high, but doable....

thicker head gasket maybe?
hondata?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Even with hondata you can only pull so much timing and still have the car not run like ***. With such high compression it is just not worth it with out the high octane fuel.

 

The car does have Hondata, and I guess if I had to I could buy a thicker headgasket, for now im gonna try going to a different tuner and see what he can do, the first guy I went to tuned mostly Supra's and RX7s and had done some Honda's but the new guy im gonna try has done so many Honda's it would take 10 minutes to count them all, I guess that is where I made my first mistake but ohh well. On 100 octane, what kinda power do you guys think I can make?

 

no offense man, but id worry about finding a way for your motor to run right before worrying about the power....last thing you want is to make 200+ and have the internals get all F-ed up from detonating....

is the head milled?
what type of pistons are you running?

 

The head is not milled, the deck is at 0 deck though, pistons are IB Spec Wiseco with a 5cc dome @ 12.8:1 cr. The car does run right now an ECU prog I have in there, its some mystery program that I had made for my car but I never got the specs on it but the car runs on 91 octane with stock ignition timing right now, it just doesnt like anything over 5000rpms, I dont ever get on it at all, just use it to drive around and it does just that, drives with no problems, I want it tuned so I can actually enjoy all the money I spent on the motor building it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PreStaged12s &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The head is not milled, the deck is at 0 deck though, pistons are IB Spec Wiseco with a 5cc dome @ 12.8:1 cr. The car does run right now an ECU prog I have in there, its some mystery program that I had made for my car but I never got the specs on it but the car runs on 91 octane with stock ignition timing right now, it just doesnt like anything over 5000rpms, I dont ever get on it at all, just use it to drive around and it does just that, drives with no problems, I want it tuned so I can actually enjoy all the money I spent on the motor building it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

damn, i wouldn't drive around on that thing with 91 octane unless I had the dizzy all the way retarded. I can't believe you're driving around with 15 degrees of advance at the distributor on 91 octane. Hopefully you haven't done much damage yet.

s

 

thats just it, there is no damage, the tuner did more damage to it when he was tuning it, it doesnt burn oil at ALL, it has no problems driving down the street and YES it is 13:1 cr, I have the spec sheet from the builder who built the motor, this is what is confusing, when I drive it on the current ECU program I have it does not ping at all, no pinging! only on initial start up sometimes and if you try to snap the throttle without any load on it, but other than that its cool, thats what is so confusing about all of this.

 

This might help you out...

http://www.coolingmist.com/Pagedisplay.aspx?key=na

Water injection

 

wth is water injection??

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LSVTEC 91 Civic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This might help you out...

http://www.coolingmist.com/Pagedisplay.aspx?key=na

Water injection </TD></TR></TABLE>

Im not looking to do anything crazy, just a good tune for my motor.

 

Supra's use it a lot, and sometimes Subaru's do to, it basically cools the combustion temp so you can run more timing.

 

It sounds like you want your cake and to eat it to.

No offernse to you, but the stories you hear of people running their 13:1 motors on 91 octane are people who only run it on 91 octane to get them around town. NONE of them are ripping it on 91 octane..... From what I understand your motor already does this. Sweet.

Now listen to your first tuner and use race gas only for the power you desire void of all pinging.