Here is the orignal thread.....

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1160188

I think that that is part of the problem (tuning was done with a vaccuum leak, and wideband was placed after the cutout, so might not have seen the correct fuel amounts when reading)<---that sums it up for all the lazy people!

Anyway, I had to extend the 02 wires in order for the 02 sensor to reach the downpipe (Bung is pretty close to the outlet of the turbo)

Now, I will throw a CEL 41 (I think it's 41, I forgot, whichever is the 02 Sensor heater circuit, I already checked that) whenever I get into the car and drive for a while.

However, I think the gas milage is better when the CEL comes on.....before I was getting about 10-15 miles a gallon, and its a little better with it on, I *think*.

When I extended the wires, I MAY have mixed up the two black wires, would this cause the CEL to come on, or would it just cause the heater to stay on all the time? (one black 12v constant, one black is heater signal, correct?)

So, before I get my car re-tuned, should I go buy a new 02 sensor and re-do the wires, making sure not to mix them up this time? Or is it impossible for them to be mixed up and not ruin someting?

Thanks for the helpp

 

upp uppp

 

I would think if the black wires were crossed that could certainly cause an 02 heater circuit CEL. The black wires are the 12v power and ground for the heater. It prob wouldnt be too happy if you reversed them.

Here's a picture of the wires on the 02 connector to help you identify what is what.


Why didn't you check the wiring first? That is fairly obvious.

 

Cuz they are extended about 4 feet, and wrapped in electrical tape, then loom, then more tape.

Any links to where I can get a new 02 sensor? I might as well replace it, it does have 85k miles on it. . .


BTW, sometimes it will throw the code, and other times I can drive for an hour without it coming on. . .

 

http://www.oxygensensors.com

http://www.nopionline.com

Are you running Hondata?

Generally, the wiring of the o2 heater circuit doesn't matter [I've never had a problem wiring it either way].

 

really? nah, im using uberdata. . .

switching to neptune when i go to jeff to re-tune, I just wanted to get everything sorted out first.

Also, I noticed that it only hesitates at 0psi when the CEL isn't on....In other words, when there is no CEL, and when im cruising, it will hesitate or buck. When the CEL is on, it won't hesitate and drive smoothly. ****, this is eating up all my $$, cuz its my daily driver lol

 

Could it possibly be an uberdata bug?

 

thought so, thats why im going to jeff to re-tune with neptune, but there is deff. an 02 problem also

 

If your CEL is on from an O2 malfunction, the car runs in open loop and will generally run leaner mixtures at part throttle/cruise and richer mixtures at WOT/0vac. This explains your better mileage and better boost transition.

 

any way to make it stay it in open loop for now? i mean b/c the CEL only comes on sometimes. . .

 

Does Uberdata have the option to run in open loop all the time? I know Hondata does and this is how I have my car set up.

 

just FYI
The polarity of the two black wires does not matter. You can switch them back and forth and the sensor will still function properly. Only the other two wires on a 4 wire O2 sensor have specific polarity.

 

great, so why am I getting an 02 heater CEL?

bad 02 sensor?

Anyone know if uberdata can disable closed loop?

Well, even if it does, it won't really help me, I don't have a burner or anything. . .Soo...Will unplugging the 02 sensor make it stay in open loop? I think I'l try that if it does.

Thanks again


Modified by m R g S r at 5:08 PM 3/16/2005

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by m R g S r &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Well, even if it does, it won't really help me, I don't have a burner or anything. . .Soo...Will unplugging the 02 sensor make it stay in open loop? I think I'l try that if it does. Modified by m R g S r at 5:08 PM 3/16/2005</TD></TR></TABLE>

It should throw an immediate CEL if you do that, questionable if it'll fix the problem. Uber does have closed loop disable, it's in the Misc tab.

 

well for now, I don't have enough $$ to buy an 02 sensor, until I get back from vacation (WMC's in Florida ) So I guess I'll unplug it now and see if the gas milage is alright for the time being. . . thanks!
BTW, this won't mess anything up, right? I mean the fuel tables remain the same at WOT, right?

 

Alright, so I unplugged it and went for a drive, and now the CEL comes up right after I turn on the car. I checked it and it's still code 41......Is that the only 02 sensor code? Sorry for all the questions, the help is appreciated.

 

hmmm. . .so far so good, I saw about 25-30 miles per gallon today. . . yes!

 

just buy a burner because they are super cheap. Disable closed loop and tune your part throttle maps and then you will have no need for an o2 sensor and you also won't be leaning out under part throttle boosting conditions. I had a similar problem with my car running closed loop..i wasn't throwing a cel, but i would have a buck or hesitation around 0psi transition into boost. When i disabled closed loop it went away. I think maybe my o2 sensor is going bad because when i fed the ecu a narrowband signal from my wideband o2 and ran in closed loop the car didn't have that hesitation anymore.

 

so with hondata you can just get rid of you o2 sensor if you run it in open loop mode? Im kinda in the same boat. I am running an open downpipe, and i will need to extend the o2 sensor wires to make it to the downpipe. Couldnt i just disable closed loop mode and ditch the o2?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DurboDug93 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so with hondata you can just get rid of you o2 sensor if you run it in open loop mode? Im kinda in the same boat. I am running an open downpipe, and i will need to extend the o2 sensor wires to make it to the downpipe. Couldnt i just disable closed loop mode and ditch the o2?</TD></TR></TABLE>

You can ditch your o2 sensor and run in open loop mode. However, this will come at the expense of your cat if you're running one and you will not pass a sniffer emissions test (most likely.)

 

are there any cons to constantly running in open loop mode?

 

dude, if your car is modded enough, most of us don't run cats. . .

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DurboDug93 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">are there any cons to constantly running in open loop mode?</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SOHC_MShue &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> leaning out under part throttle boosting conditions. </TD></TR></TABLE>

So open loop is harmful right now? If it was too lean, wouldn't it buck or hesitate, or at least hear some knock? Right now it drives smooth as it did stock....I'm kinda happy, I just wanna resolve it before I go to Jeff. I'll try a new 02 sensor next week (after I get back from FL) and I will post up how it works out....Thanks guys!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by m R g S r &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">dude, if your car is modded enough, most of us don't run cats. . . </TD></TR></TABLE>

I know. But for those who do, or for those who run bigger performance cats, they should be aware that closed loop disable is a quick way to ruin one. And also that you won't pass emissions, and generally (other than in your case where you have a bad o2 sensor) gas mileage will go down slightly, more noticeable with freeway driving.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by m R g S r &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So open loop is harmful right now? If it was too lean, wouldn't it buck or hesitate, or at least hear some knock? Right now it drives smooth as it did stock....I'm kinda happy, I just wanna resolve it before I go to Jeff. I'll try a new 02 sensor next week (after I get back from FL) and I will post up how it works out....Thanks guys! </TD></TR></TABLE>
no closed loop can be harmful because your ecu will be trying to get you as close to 14.7:1 as it can..even if your boosting, but having given it enough throttle to throw it into open loop, which is obviously bad..it can mostly happen while going up hills and stuff where you put a lot of load on the motor.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ibiza &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I know. But for those who do, or for those who run bigger performance cats, they should be aware that closed loop disable is a quick way to ruin one. And also that you won't pass emissions, and generally (other than in your case where you have a bad o2 sensor) gas mileage will go down slightly, more noticeable with freeway driving.</TD></TR></TABLE>
why can't you pass emmisions? If you tune your part throttle maps then you should be fine. Heck i'm sure a lot of people tune their part throttle maps to mostly 15:1 for fuel economy out of boost.