I have just installed new front brakes using Brembo blanks and Ferodo DS2500 pads:




I have also bedded them in last night using the agressive method mentioned here https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1113708. Thanks all that helped me in that thread.

I have made 10 braking from 60 to 10 and then immediatelly 4 braking from 80 to 10. Then 15 minutes cruising without use of brakes and all again (10x60-10 and 4x80-10 plus 15 minutes cruising). The brakes smelled in both sessions after aprox. 8th braking. The brakes also faded, but only in the first session, they performed well and braked much better in the second session.

The rotors after the bedding look like this:




Are my brakes already bedded or should I add some additional bedding session? The dark area (layer transfered from pads) is only on the outer side of the rotor, the inner part is still silver, even if there is contact with pad. It looks like aI have some unifrom layer, but not on all area that is with contact with the pad.

The pads look like this:





It's interesting that the pads and rotors on the inside were more worn that the outside that is normally visible. There is probably more heat inside?

I also measured runout of the rotors and I measured 0.04 and 0.03mm, so it's in the Honda range of 0.10mm:






Modified by petrv at 4:43 PM 3/12/2005


Modified by petrv at 5:23 PM 3/12/2005


Modified by petrv at 5:41 PM 3/12/2005

 

why do you "bed" rotors? im kind of a noob to performance brakes

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Azcheron &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why do you "bed" rotors? im kind of a noob to performance brakes</TD></TR></TABLE>
AFAIK there should be an uniform layer of material transfered from the pad to the rotor surface. I assume the black "circle" on my rotor is that layer. It is uniform, but not on all area of the rotor. The question is, if I should repeat the bedding to get the dark layer to the whole rotor area.

 

the insides of the rotors look hot

reminds me of my T1R tip

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by petrv &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The question is, if I should repeat the bedding to get the dark layer to the whole rotor area.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I would not bother, just use the car normally, it the brakes bite good and work like they should it's OK.

 

great post! helpful and insightful for those who are new to this. thanks for sharing!

kepani

 

WOW you are very persice with changing your brakes
I always just slap em on, cruise around and stomp on the brakes a few times from 80-100mph to 10-20mph. If they work and are not making noise or anything they are good to go! I would haev never thought of actually measuring the rotor after

 

would you still bed the pads if they're oem? i know if i had some agressive pads i would definitely want to bed them. also, does it matter if your rotor is new or not for pad bedding?

 

I think you can remove the dust/heat shield from the back side of your brakes to help with the cooling on the back of the rotor. I'm pretty sure most "tracked" cars have them removed to help keep the brakes cool.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Azcheron &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why do you "bed" rotors? im kind of a noob to performance brakes</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by petrv &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
AFAIK there should be an uniform layer of material transfered from the pad to the rotor surface. I assume the black "circle" on my rotor is that layer. It is uniform, but not on all area of the rotor. The question is, if I should repeat the bedding to get the dark layer to the whole rotor area.</TD></TR></TABLE>


There's some terminology confusion here. And possibly a hint of clarification needed:

You Bed pads in to activate (boil) the pad compounds binder (glue) so it can make proper friction and contact with the rotor. &lt;A bit more in depth, but you had the correct idea.

You Season rotors to burn the machine oils from the surface of the iron (which you could also do by washing them before install) and establishing a wear pattern between the pad and rotor. This also relieves the internal stresses within the rotor material on a molecular level.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nightrider &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">would you still bed the pads if they're oem?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nightrider &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i know if i had some agressive pads i would definitely want to bed them. also, does it matter if your rotor is new or not for pad bedding?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Read my above comment about Rotor Seasoning.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 88 rex &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think you can remove the dust/heat shield from the back side of your brakes to help with the cooling on the back of the rotor. I'm pretty sure most "tracked" cars have them removed to help keep the brakes cool.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Correct.

This is one of the first cooling mods that track guys do that is free.

What also must be remembered as to why the inside of the rotor will wear more is that this is where the caliper piston is actuating and clamping. The outboard side doesn't move. The piston side is constantly the first thing that contacts the rotor.


Modified by 1GreyTeg at 9:28 PM 3/12/2005

 

Very informative thread.

 

Hmmm....

 

Everything looks fine - the pads look a bit glazed, so I'd hit them with some sandpaper, 40-60 grit just to pull that glazed layer off the pad Only a few seconds per pad should do the trick.

 

Everybody should read these articles about bedding: http://www.stoptech.com/whitep...s.htm. I have followed their instructions.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1GreyTeg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
There's some terminology confusion here. And possibly a hint of clarification needed:

You Bed pads in to activate (boil) the pad compounds binder (glue) so it can make proper friction and contact with the rotor. &lt;A bit more in depth, but you had the correct idea.

You Season rotors to burn the machine oils from the surface of the iron (which you could also do by washing them before install) and establishing a wear pattern between the pad and rotor. This also relieves the internal stresses within the rotor material on a molecular level.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I was also very cofused about the rotor seasoning. I was worried that if I step on the brakes hard from the first time (do the hard stops while bedding in), the rotor will warp immediatelly. In fact, this is absolutelly not true and there is no need to worry. It looks like cleaning the rotor is enough and no additional "be gentle for XXX miles" that you hear everywhere is not needed. I must say that I have never seen such a nice and uniform pad layer on the rotor before, when I didn't follow the Stoptech bedding instructions. Now I did and the results look impressive to me.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by petrv &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Everybody should read these articles about bedding: http://www.stoptech.com/whitep...s.htm. I have followed their instructions.


I was also very cofused about the rotor seasoning. I was worried that if I step on the brakes hard from the first time (do the hard stops while bedding in), the rotor will warp immediatelly. In fact, this is absolutelly not true and there is no need to worry. It looks like cleaning the rotor is enough and no additional "be gentle for XXX miles" that you hear everywhere is not needed. I must say that I have never seen such a nice and uniform pad layer on the rotor before, when I didn't follow the Stoptech bedding instructions. Now I did and the results look impressive to me.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Here's a few more links for Bedding and Seasoning, take what you can from all the links and put them together for what fits your needs best:

http://www.baer.com/Support/Te...pID=4

http://www.baer.com/Support/Te...pID=5

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1GreyTeg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Here's a few more links for Bedding and Seasoning, take what you can from all the links and put them together for what fits your needs best:

http://www.baer.com/Support/Te...pID=4

http://www.baer.com/Support/Te...pID=5

</TD></TR></TABLE>
This is the case I have been talking about. Baer recommends light seasoning the rotors before bedding the pads, while Stoptech doesn't. Now who is right? I know many people that do the Stoptech's method and it works. It looks that it works for me too.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by petrv &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This is the case I have been talking about. Baer recommends light seasoning the rotors before bedding the pads, while Stoptech doesn't. Now who is right? I know many people that do the Stoptech's method and it works. It looks that it works for me too.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You seem like a very thorough person in all your posts. I never take the pads off after a break-in unless there's an obvious problem.

I don't think rotor seasoning is that important in modern rotors. I don't think any of the racers here season the rotors, at least not on purpose.

The light white edge around your pads is a good sign that they're bedded. It does look a little glazed, you might try the trick RJ mentioned with the sandpaper, but that also might come off with some normal street driving.

The inside pad will always wear faster than the outside one, ideally not by much. The force the inside pad sees is equal to the force applied by the piston, and the outside pad sees the same force MINUS the friction in the caliper assembly. You may want to use some brake lube under the little boots on the sliding pistons in the caliper (what are those called?)

p.s. Follow the manufacturer's recommendation for bedding. I'm pretty sure the OEM instructions (and some other non-racing pads) will say something like 500 miles of light braking, which is crap, but that's what they recommend. If you tried a racing bed-in for street pads, they may burn/glaze/etc. What break-in did the Fedorro pads recommend, if anything? DS2500 is "high peformance", not racing, so I'm not sure what they'd recommend.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris F &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't think rotor seasoning is that important in modern rotors. I don't think any of the racers here season the rotors, at least not on purpose.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

My experience has been that a properly bedded/seasoned/whatever rotor will not crack as fast as one that was just thrown on there and taken out on track at full tilt. Also how you treat the rotors going on/off track can impact their life as well (i.e. bringing them up to temp and cooling off slowly)

 

Would the same procedure be used on used rotors(the ones already on the car) or would I have to get new rotors in order to properly bed/season them?

 

Yes, No

 

lol, care to explain?

 

You asked two questions, i answered them?

 

Ohh, that works too. I thought you just mean yes and no for the hell of it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

My experience has been that a properly bedded/seasoned/whatever rotor will not crack as fast as one that was just thrown on there and taken out on track at full tilt. Also how you treat the rotors going on/off track can impact their life as well (i.e. bringing them up to temp and cooling off slowly)</TD></TR></TABLE>

Agreed.

I experienced longer life and less severe and hairline cracks with properly seasoned rotors. Proper pad bedding was a given. And proper warm up and cool down is a must.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1GreyTeg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I experienced longer life and less severe and hairline cracks with properly seasoned rotors. Proper pad bedding was a given. And proper warm up and cool down is a must.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Then again, I am lazy, impatient and have an amazing ability to get redmisted in the first half lap on cold tires and brakes, so my rotors often die a short death.