sway bar upgrade.....
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Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,310
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From: ILM, NC
sway bar upgrade.....
i searched in road race/autocross and came up w/ links for dc2, civic etc..... nothing s2k related....
i have done a few auto x lately, and i feel like i need to upgrade the front sway....
the car feels like it is plowing quite a bit.....
i am running the stock so2's ......
i have played w/ the tire pressure quite a bit, and it still not quite the results i am looking for....
any help would be greatly appreciated......
mods if this needs to be in rr/ax forum please feel free to move.....
TIA
i have done a few auto x lately, and i feel like i need to upgrade the front sway....
the car feels like it is plowing quite a bit.....
i am running the stock so2's ......
i have played w/ the tire pressure quite a bit, and it still not quite the results i am looking for....
any help would be greatly appreciated......
mods if this needs to be in rr/ax forum please feel free to move.....
TIA
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 14,529
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From: Lost Somewhere
Re: sway bar upgrade..... (cmdr430)
if you are trying to stay in the stock class, the best upgrade is the comptech adjustable front sway bar
http://www.hardtopguy.com/stor...age=2
http://www.hardtopguy.com/stor...age=2
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 806
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From: TX
Re: sway bar upgrade..... (cmdr430)
A mugen or comptech non-adjustable front would work. Saner bar would work as well. If you want full adjustability go with the Comptech adjustable. The Gendron bar is even more adjustable, but I've had problems with two of them and the end links going, even when setup properly with Bill Gendron on the phone giving me very explicit instructions on how he likes it setup.
I'd say ditch the rear bar if you could, but that isn't allowed in B-stock. So... go with what fits the budget: Saner, Comptech or Mugen non-adjustable front bar. The Saner does have two holes on each side, so it is adjustable in three settings: both aft, both forward, or one aft, one forward. Adjustability is in the LENGTH of the bar, not necessarily making them symmetric.
Hope this helps.
I'd say ditch the rear bar if you could, but that isn't allowed in B-stock. So... go with what fits the budget: Saner, Comptech or Mugen non-adjustable front bar. The Saner does have two holes on each side, so it is adjustable in three settings: both aft, both forward, or one aft, one forward. Adjustability is in the LENGTH of the bar, not necessarily making them symmetric.
Hope this helps.
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From: Lost Somewhere
Re: sway bar upgrade..... (Francesco)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Francesco »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i still have to look into a front sway bar. i was thinking about going with the cusco or spoon bar. i still have to look into it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
cusco is thicker than the spoon
cusco is thicker than the spoon
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From: never never land
Re: sway bar upgrade..... (Nishant)
my problem with comptech is that its adjustable, and im not up on the adjusting concept for street use and track.
im probably better off getting the cusco since its a bolt up and drive around.
im probably better off getting the cusco since its a bolt up and drive around.
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From: Lost Somewhere
Re: sway bar upgrade..... (Francesco)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Francesco »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my problem with comptech is that its adjustable, and im not up on the adjusting concept for street use and track.
im probably better off getting the cusco since its a bolt up and drive around.</TD></TR></TABLE>
i am strongly considering the comptech but i am thinking about how much adjusting i will have to do at the track when i tune my suspension
im probably better off getting the cusco since its a bolt up and drive around.</TD></TR></TABLE>
i am strongly considering the comptech but i am thinking about how much adjusting i will have to do at the track when i tune my suspension
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From: never never land
Re: sway bar upgrade..... (03s2kblue)
its hard to explain. i had sway bars on my eclipse, and i noticed a big difference in the handling.
it somewhat tightens the stearing and improves the handling. thats what i noticed.
it somewhat tightens the stearing and improves the handling. thats what i noticed.
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From: Lost Somewhere
Re: sway bar upgrade..... (03s2kblue)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 03s2kblue »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what exactly will a front sway bar do?</TD></TR></TABLE>
i thought you knew this.... a couple things:
- stiffer front as in less roll
-slight understeer which would help us. it counteracts our oversteer so we can a more neutral car
- overall helps handling given the proper driver
i thought you knew this.... a couple things:
- stiffer front as in less roll
-slight understeer which would help us. it counteracts our oversteer so we can a more neutral car
- overall helps handling given the proper driver
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 806
Likes: 0
From: TX
Re: sway bar upgrade..... (03s2kblue)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 03s2kblue »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what exactly will a front sway bar do?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Okay, lets get to the basics instead of saying how people add them, and how people tune them, making them better drivers - which is far from what they do or their intended purposes.
A swaybar is more of an 'anti-swaybar'. It prevents the car from swaying or rather, rolling to the side. There are endlinks from the bottom A-arm on the front suspension, which connect to the swaybar. That swaybar links to the other A-arm on the other side of the car. The swaybar also connects to the frame itself which is held by bushings made of rubber, eurathane or even a solid mount depending on the drivability, trackability or noise transfer that is desired.
Here's a little more information...
http://www.houseofthud.com/cartech/swaybars.htm
Also, it doesn't matter if you put them on your eclipse. The majority of cars out there have them already on the car. You are just swapping them out for stiff or looser bars which is determined by the length, sidewall, and make of the bar itself. That can be hollow or solid as well. The bushings only effect how much the bar will deflect from the mounting points: chassis and endlinks.
I hope this helps out.
Okay, lets get to the basics instead of saying how people add them, and how people tune them, making them better drivers - which is far from what they do or their intended purposes.
A swaybar is more of an 'anti-swaybar'. It prevents the car from swaying or rather, rolling to the side. There are endlinks from the bottom A-arm on the front suspension, which connect to the swaybar. That swaybar links to the other A-arm on the other side of the car. The swaybar also connects to the frame itself which is held by bushings made of rubber, eurathane or even a solid mount depending on the drivability, trackability or noise transfer that is desired.
Here's a little more information...
http://www.houseofthud.com/cartech/swaybars.htm
Also, it doesn't matter if you put them on your eclipse. The majority of cars out there have them already on the car. You are just swapping them out for stiff or looser bars which is determined by the length, sidewall, and make of the bar itself. That can be hollow or solid as well. The bushings only effect how much the bar will deflect from the mounting points: chassis and endlinks.
I hope this helps out.
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From: London, UK
Re: sway bar upgrade..... (Nishant)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Nishant »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i thought you knew this.... a couple things:
- stiffer front as in less roll
-slight understeer which would help us. it counteracts our oversteer so we can a more neutral car
- overall helps handling given the proper driver </TD></TR></TABLE>
i do.. but for instance.. if you get both front and rear wouldn't that just make it neutral? instaed of doing one thing or another....
cause i read on s2ki.. that some people have had differnt things happen with differnt swaybars and different setups...
i thought you knew this.... a couple things:
- stiffer front as in less roll
-slight understeer which would help us. it counteracts our oversteer so we can a more neutral car
- overall helps handling given the proper driver
</TD></TR></TABLE>i do.. but for instance.. if you get both front and rear wouldn't that just make it neutral? instaed of doing one thing or another....
cause i read on s2ki.. that some people have had differnt things happen with differnt swaybars and different setups...
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From: London, UK
Re: sway bar upgrade..... (03s2kblue)
ok... i picked this up from s2ki a couple of months ago when i was searching on this..... this was all in one thread under race/competition but i don't remember the actual name of the thread...
1. the comptech fully adjustable front set to it's hardest setting and the comptech non adjustable one created snap oversteer.....
2. the mugen rear with the comptech front planted the rear end but you lost traction..
3. the neuspeed front and rears installed and they experienced understeer....
4. the cusco front and rear setup seems to keep the rear planted and people have had great success with this on the track... they seem to have more confidence going though the turns which means less oversteer..
these statements were from seperate individuals..... all on thier personal experience
1. the comptech fully adjustable front set to it's hardest setting and the comptech non adjustable one created snap oversteer.....
2. the mugen rear with the comptech front planted the rear end but you lost traction..
3. the neuspeed front and rears installed and they experienced understeer....
4. the cusco front and rear setup seems to keep the rear planted and people have had great success with this on the track... they seem to have more confidence going though the turns which means less oversteer..
these statements were from seperate individuals..... all on thier personal experience
Joined: Jul 2003
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From: TX
Re: sway bar upgrade..... (03s2kblue)
comments below:
1. the comptech fully adjustable front set to it's hardest setting and the comptech non adjustable one created snap oversteer.....
-- the snap oversteer issue again? hmmm. doubtful that it creates that much. I haven't tried it to full stiff, but with a gendron or other adjustable bar on full stiff, the car plows with too much with understeer, even with 225's up front. one less, and it seems to work fine.
2. the mugen rear with the comptech front planted the rear end but you lost traction..
-- the rear end lost traction and you gain a lot of wheel hop because the rear diff cannot 'rebound' quick enough with a stiffer rear bar. without a rear bar, wheel hop is as minimal as you can get, because the diff will react and plant itself on the ground as needed.
3. the neuspeed front and rears installed and they experienced understeer....
-- the front isn't large enough and with a complimented rear, it will only be similar to the stock setup. just a front addition, maybe a bit of understeer, but both shouldn't create understeer.
4. the cusco front and rear setup seems to keep the rear planted and people have had great success with this on the track... they seem to have more confidence going though the turns which means less oversteer..
-- no experience here. just watch the last comment - less oversteer = greater confidence. it is more about keeping it neutral, which you also need to adjust your tire pressures to compensate: the front tires need to be optimal for steering and the rears need to be adjusted for understeer/oversteer characteristics.
1. the comptech fully adjustable front set to it's hardest setting and the comptech non adjustable one created snap oversteer.....
-- the snap oversteer issue again? hmmm. doubtful that it creates that much. I haven't tried it to full stiff, but with a gendron or other adjustable bar on full stiff, the car plows with too much with understeer, even with 225's up front. one less, and it seems to work fine.
2. the mugen rear with the comptech front planted the rear end but you lost traction..
-- the rear end lost traction and you gain a lot of wheel hop because the rear diff cannot 'rebound' quick enough with a stiffer rear bar. without a rear bar, wheel hop is as minimal as you can get, because the diff will react and plant itself on the ground as needed.
3. the neuspeed front and rears installed and they experienced understeer....
-- the front isn't large enough and with a complimented rear, it will only be similar to the stock setup. just a front addition, maybe a bit of understeer, but both shouldn't create understeer.
4. the cusco front and rear setup seems to keep the rear planted and people have had great success with this on the track... they seem to have more confidence going though the turns which means less oversteer..
-- no experience here. just watch the last comment - less oversteer = greater confidence. it is more about keeping it neutral, which you also need to adjust your tire pressures to compensate: the front tires need to be optimal for steering and the rears need to be adjusted for understeer/oversteer characteristics.
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From: Lost Somewhere
Re: sway bar upgrade..... (Mr. Bagel)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr. Bagel »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">comments below:
1. the comptech fully adjustable front set to it's hardest setting and the comptech non adjustable one created snap oversteer.....
-- the snap oversteer issue again? hmmm. doubtful that it creates that much. I haven't tried it to full stiff, but with a gendron or other adjustable bar on full stiff, the car plows with too much with understeer, even with 225's up front. one less, and it seems to work fine.
2. the mugen rear with the comptech front planted the rear end but you lost traction..
-- the rear end lost traction and you gain a lot of wheel hop because the rear diff cannot 'rebound' quick enough with a stiffer rear bar. without a rear bar, wheel hop is as minimal as you can get, because the diff will react and plant itself on the ground as needed.
3. the neuspeed front and rears installed and they experienced understeer....
-- the front isn't large enough and with a complimented rear, it will only be similar to the stock setup. just a front addition, maybe a bit of understeer, but both shouldn't create understeer.
4. the cusco front and rear setup seems to keep the rear planted and people have had great success with this on the track... they seem to have more confidence going though the turns which means less oversteer..
-- no experience here. just watch the last comment - less oversteer = greater confidence. it is more about keeping it neutral, which you also need to adjust your tire pressures to compensate: the front tires need to be optimal for steering and the rears need to be adjusted for understeer/oversteer characteristics.</TD></TR></TABLE>
i think i will wind up with the comptech adjustable in the front and cusco rear. as far as tire pressues, with my current stock set up. i always go 1-2psi more in the front when i track the car. it works pretty well
1. the comptech fully adjustable front set to it's hardest setting and the comptech non adjustable one created snap oversteer.....
-- the snap oversteer issue again? hmmm. doubtful that it creates that much. I haven't tried it to full stiff, but with a gendron or other adjustable bar on full stiff, the car plows with too much with understeer, even with 225's up front. one less, and it seems to work fine.
2. the mugen rear with the comptech front planted the rear end but you lost traction..
-- the rear end lost traction and you gain a lot of wheel hop because the rear diff cannot 'rebound' quick enough with a stiffer rear bar. without a rear bar, wheel hop is as minimal as you can get, because the diff will react and plant itself on the ground as needed.
3. the neuspeed front and rears installed and they experienced understeer....
-- the front isn't large enough and with a complimented rear, it will only be similar to the stock setup. just a front addition, maybe a bit of understeer, but both shouldn't create understeer.
4. the cusco front and rear setup seems to keep the rear planted and people have had great success with this on the track... they seem to have more confidence going though the turns which means less oversteer..
-- no experience here. just watch the last comment - less oversteer = greater confidence. it is more about keeping it neutral, which you also need to adjust your tire pressures to compensate: the front tires need to be optimal for steering and the rears need to be adjusted for understeer/oversteer characteristics.</TD></TR></TABLE>
i think i will wind up with the comptech adjustable in the front and cusco rear. as far as tire pressues, with my current stock set up. i always go 1-2psi more in the front when i track the car. it works pretty well
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,310
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From: ILM, NC
Re: sway bar upgrade..... (Nishant)
thank you everyone for all the responses..... 
i am doing quite a bit of research at the time, and i will let you guys know what i come up with......
thanks again
i am doing quite a bit of research at the time, and i will let you guys know what i come up with......
thanks again
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From: Philadelphia, PA, PBR
Re: sway bar upgrade..... (cmdr430)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cmdr430 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i searched in road race/autocross and came up w/ links for dc2, civic etc..... nothing s2k related....
i have done a few auto x lately, and i feel like i need to upgrade the front sway....
the car feels like it is plowing quite a bit.....
i am running the stock so2's ......
i have played w/ the tire pressure quite a bit, and it still not quite the results i am looking for....
any help would be greatly appreciated......
mods if this needs to be in rr/ax forum please feel free to move.....
TIA</TD></TR></TABLE>
When I was on stock front bar and stock S-02s early last season, I was running like 45PSI front and 38 PSi rear. It was very neutral but if I pushed to hard and got any oversteer, it was unrecoverable and I was in for a spin. If you plan on sticking with the Street tires for now, I don't think you NEED a front bar, but it would certainly help with putting power down on corner exits.
If you plane on switching to R-compounds, then you NEED the big front bar. Assuming you are planning to stay in A Stock and run on R-compounds, you really NEED a front swaybar - especially on the 00-03 models). Without it, you will not be able to put power down exiting corners, and the car is a real handful. A nice big adjustable front bar is easily worth at least 2 sec on a 60 sec course. Without a big front bar, saving a spin is nearly impossible. With a big front bar the car is much easier to drive and recover if the rear starts coming around.
The only front sway bars I would recommed would be, in order of prefernce:
1)Saner - Inexpensive yet works fantasically. Good adjustment. The issue is how long will you have to wait for one? I waited 7 months for them to make me one.
2)Comptech - Expensive as hell for a stupid bar. But very nice design, and good adjustment range. Good availability.
3)Gendron - More Adjustment options than Saner. More expensive than Saner, but cheaper than Comptech. You can opt for a hollow bar to save weight.
I run on Victoracers and the Saner bar on the middle setting on asphalt lots. The car is very neutral, controllable, and fast with this settup. It did take me the better part of last season to get comfortable with it though.
Andrew
i have done a few auto x lately, and i feel like i need to upgrade the front sway....
the car feels like it is plowing quite a bit.....
i am running the stock so2's ......
i have played w/ the tire pressure quite a bit, and it still not quite the results i am looking for....
any help would be greatly appreciated......
mods if this needs to be in rr/ax forum please feel free to move.....
TIA</TD></TR></TABLE>
When I was on stock front bar and stock S-02s early last season, I was running like 45PSI front and 38 PSi rear. It was very neutral but if I pushed to hard and got any oversteer, it was unrecoverable and I was in for a spin. If you plan on sticking with the Street tires for now, I don't think you NEED a front bar, but it would certainly help with putting power down on corner exits.
If you plane on switching to R-compounds, then you NEED the big front bar. Assuming you are planning to stay in A Stock and run on R-compounds, you really NEED a front swaybar - especially on the 00-03 models). Without it, you will not be able to put power down exiting corners, and the car is a real handful. A nice big adjustable front bar is easily worth at least 2 sec on a 60 sec course. Without a big front bar, saving a spin is nearly impossible. With a big front bar the car is much easier to drive and recover if the rear starts coming around.
The only front sway bars I would recommed would be, in order of prefernce:
1)Saner - Inexpensive yet works fantasically. Good adjustment. The issue is how long will you have to wait for one? I waited 7 months for them to make me one.
2)Comptech - Expensive as hell for a stupid bar. But very nice design, and good adjustment range. Good availability.
3)Gendron - More Adjustment options than Saner. More expensive than Saner, but cheaper than Comptech. You can opt for a hollow bar to save weight.
I run on Victoracers and the Saner bar on the middle setting on asphalt lots. The car is very neutral, controllable, and fast with this settup. It did take me the better part of last season to get comfortable with it though.
Andrew
Joined: Jul 2003
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From: TX
Re: sway bar upgrade..... (aklucsarits)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by aklucsarits »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I run on Victoracers and the Saner bar on the middle setting on asphalt lots. The car is very neutral, controllable, and fast with this settup. It did take me the better part of last season to get comfortable with it though. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Andrew, do you run with 205's or 225's up front with this setup? I'm curious to know your impressions.
Andrew, do you run with 205's or 225's up front with this setup? I'm curious to know your impressions.
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From: Philadelphia, PA, PBR
Re: sway bar upgrade..... (Mr. Bagel)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr. Bagel »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Andrew, do you run with 205's or 225's up front with this setup? I'm curious to know your impressions.</TD></TR></TABLE>
The narrowest 16" Kumho Victoracers are 225 wide. So I have 225/50/16s up front, and I have 245/45/16s in back. With this setup, the stock front swaybar will give you massive oversteer. But with the Saner bar added, it's neutral and tame.
Andrew
The narrowest 16" Kumho Victoracers are 225 wide. So I have 225/50/16s up front, and I have 245/45/16s in back. With this setup, the stock front swaybar will give you massive oversteer. But with the Saner bar added, it's neutral and tame.
Andrew
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From: Philadelphia, PA, PBR
Re: sway bar upgrade..... (Mr. Bagel)
Yeah, and those Victoracer sizes are deceptive on paper too... The 225 is MUCH wider than 225mm. But the 245s are pretty close to 245mm. It's more like a 240mm up front and a 250mm in back. So you get substantial improvement in tire up front and a nominal improvement in back with the Victoracers - you can see how the oversteer would be an issue. But the big bar works like magic to fix it!!!
Andrew
Andrew
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