yo, i was supposed to pick up my damn car today after a week of work and I come to find out that the recommended injectors (440cc) are too big and the damn car is running too rich. Tried to lean it out with the afc.... didn't work am overnighting 330's. don't make this mistake if the place you're getting ur **** from is retarded. Its 00 accord garrett turbo, invidia exhaust vafc, etc... i'll have pics soon.... it does look pretty nice

 

you should be able to lean them out with the AFC but you probably have the same problem i did. you need an aftermarket adjustable fuel pressure regulator. the stock regulator couldn't handle the added pressure from my walbro.

do you have an aftermarker fuel pump?

 

Yes I have an in-tank walbro 255hp... i guess just for now im going to run 5psi with the stock injectors.... they can handle that, but no more or it will run lean as hell.....

 

what about an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator?... as was said above, the stocker cannot handle that big pump. otherwise it will make you run horrible rich.

also to note I am running dsm injectors without a problem... the idle is just about perfect as well.

 

you need to get an OBD1 ecu and have it scaled to your injectors. Then you will need to get it professionally tuned. Slapping bigger injectors and a walbro pump aint gonna get your car running faster on boost.

better off running off the FMU, missing link, and stock ECU if you don't get it tuned.

 

maybe I am misunderstanding something but I think he is trying to use the afc to lean out the 440's (which does not require re-scaling the maps)... and it would be taking a step backwards if he used an fmu (lol... the fake management unit's) and missing link. The afc is a better fuel management option by far, but it does cause an early advance in timing... because of how it skews your maps to work.

tuning is key no matter what (a good a/f and timing are VITAL!)... and a p28 and rom editor software setup is ideally what you want to work towards, well short of a full blown ems like aem's... which is sooo ****.

 

yea I am trying to lean it out using the afc... however its not really me whos trying to do anything.... my car is at a proffessional tuner as we speak and they are doing everything..... The car is using the from what i hear on here a gay *** fmu, which is obviously just designed to give the car more fuel during boost..... Suprisingly I haven't heard of any problems from ppl who have been using these things for years. No i'm not trying to argue that they are great devices cause I don't really know from personal experience yet.... about the timing.... i do know that you cannot **** with the timing on the f23 unless you use a standalone which in the end makes your car run/idle like ****. So for the mean time i'm going to use the stock injectors and only push 5psi. Im sending the block away and getting a forged hp package, changing compression and all that ****, cause for real the only reason we do this **** is cause we have money to waste and in which case we might as well go all the way.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by twkdCD595 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and it would be taking a step backwards if he used an fmu</TD></TR></TABLE>
How would it be taking a step backwards? the afc will not provide the engine with the proper fuel for boost on its own.... it needs an fmu or some sort of little piece of **** to send the engine fuel under boost..... if its getting too much fuel why would lessening the amount sent to the fmu via afc not work? maybe i'm talkin out my ***..... anyway its in a pros hands and i'll figure out why all this **** when i next talk to him and get my whip back.

 

i would pull the FMU off the car and keep the AFC, although like previously stated the AFC advances your timing because it manipulates the map sensor signal to add more fuel. The AFC is way better than an FMU. if you put an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator on there it should solve your richness problem...my fuel pressure was so high before i put the regulator on it was spewing fuel out of the injector seals.

 

yep the AFC just tricks the MAP sensor into reading different parts of the fuel map, which also reads the timing at that portion.

But with 440cc injectors, there will be no portion of the map that will let you idle normally without running rich using the AFC.

 

Really, go figure I guess... I had zero problems at all running the same injectors and afc setup for quite some time, it just took a little tuning out (a w/b o2 to check makes it a bunch easier I will admit). Idle was great.

I personally dont care for the Fmu at all. It uses added fuel pressure to enrich the air/ fuel mix... usually way to much pressure at that (often upwards of 100psi)... esp with the 12:1 ratio disc (adding 12 psi more of fuel pressure per pound of boost obviously) which everyone runs these days to bandaid their overall management.

High fuel pressures stress the various components of your fuel system, and that usually leads to fatigue/ failure. Also I find you often cannot make the fine adjustments needed in the trimming of fuel while tuning.

My 2 cents.

Back to the topic:
I did not follow a good portion of your post, but it could be the time (4:50am).

Your running the fmu and the afc in the setup we are talking about?

 

if i read it right... he was trying to run 440's, FMU, and the hack, at the same time. If that's the case, I'd take the car to a different shop, because that makes no sense to me.

Either run:
1) stock injectors and FMU, with very minor adjustments with VAFC (NOT hack)
2) 440's and the hack (with NO FMU)
or
3) ditch everything but the 440's and get hondata/uberdata/neptune/AEM EMS/etc.

but you still need to get a fuel pressure regulator.

 

I took the 440cc's out and put stock injectors back in. Car has a rising rate fuel pressure regulator and afc with no hack. Ran like ****, shuttered etc.... runs too lean. Am putting the 440cc injectors back in and trying to run the hack, you say its no good with the fmu? so instead will i need to get just a fpr with the hack? and say **** the fmu? also this is a ****** ulev engine/computer which i think throws the **** way off.

 

i'd say ditch the FMU... run the 440's, the AFC hack, w/ an fpr. you should be fine, even with the ULEV. just keep in mind you have absolutely no way of adjusting the timing with any of these setups...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by philadd &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i'd say ditch the FMU... run the 440's, the AFC hack, w/ an fpr.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree, set the AFC to -40 across the board with the 440s and it will run pretty well. No need for an FPR at all IMO, I ran the hack with the stock fpr and it ran & idled fine.

 

i have looked all over the internet trying to find the afc hack. Does anyone know what it is for my car? (00 accord lx ulev) is it universal? it would be a huge help!
thanks for all your input so far guys!!!

 

wait so basically I just set everything to -40? whats all this talk I hear about needing to throw resistors on the injector harness? will that apply to me? I am only going to be running 5psi for now.... Sorrry if these questions are retarded its just my ****** car has been in the shop for over 2 weeks now and no one knows what the **** they are doing, and further more this project has cost me $55OO, YEP THATS $110 A HP at 5psi......

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shwanky &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wait so basically I just set everything to -40? whats all this talk I hear about needing to throw resistors on the injector harness? will that apply to me? </TD></TR></TABLE>

are you using saturated or peak & hold injectors?

if saturated, no resistors are needed. If peak & hold (ie: DSM 450's) you need resistors or a resistor box or you'll fry your ECU's injector drivers FAST

the "hack" is basically universal. set up the AFC like normal (throttle up, 4 cyl, pressure, 6 in 6 out) set your fuel trims for high AND low to -40 for every set point, and set the hi/low crossover to 98/99

$5500 and the shop doesn't even know how to set up the AFC? IMO get your car the hell out of that shop as fast as possible, you're getting raped.

 

hey whats up, finally good ******* news. I just got my car out of the shop. It turned out that the injectors were saturated so they did not need the resistor box and everything is set -35 across the board for the sake of running a little on the rich side as opposed to lean (obviously). the car runs ******* awesome (at least for the time being) the only things are 1. the boost spikes to about 8 or 9 psi before it returns to the set 6 maybe this is normal? and occasionally when i put in the clutch and let the car rev down the rpms drop to about 500 then go back up to the normal 750 -ish, what could be causing this?? i had a simmilar problem when pre-turbo when i had an oxygen sensor going, but of course it through the check engine light on at me, which it is not doing this time. Is this serious? the car does not stall out or any sketchy **** like that, but comes what feels like... pretty close.
once again thank you guys very much for the help and sorry if i'm rambling.

 

****, I was driving around today and my can actually did stall..... It also had quite a hard time starting back up, i had to give it some gas while turning the key. The only thing i was doing different than regular was having the stereo up pretty loud, i've got a 1000watt amp.... could this have something to do with it? while i'm driving the stereo is fine.....

 

hmm and yet something else i found thats a little weird.... when im idling in nuetral and i rev and hold the rpms at 3000 or higher (with no boost kicking in) the engine will bog down withing seconds and nearly stall if not stall right out. I'm assuming this has something to do with fuel delivery maybe? also the my throttle point on the afc is set at 15% and 85% is this wack? is this what you were saying I should change to 98 and 99?

 

sounds to me like you're running too rich if your idle is dropping or loping. I started at -35 with my car and it wouldn't idle well, it would stall and not start right back up. I put it on a dyno and it was DEAD RICH - like off the charts.

Try setting everything to -40, and change your throttle points to 98 and 99. (yes that's what I was trying to say, without the AFC in front of me I'm going on memory) I think you'll find that the car will run 100% better.

The stereo should have nothing to do with the way the car runs.

As far as the boost spike goes, what are you using for a boost controller? What vacuum source are you using for the wastegate?

HTH -B

 

Okay I went in and changed the settings: for narrow throttle I set the values to -40 from 1000-2500 rpm and the rest as well as wide throttle are all at 35. I also went and changed the throttle point to 98 and 99 as you said. The car seemed to be running great for a while and then did its little dieing out routine again..... could it still be too rich? I cant really lean it out anymore.... or at least i dont think... i mean i could set everything to -40 but when it was on the wideband at the dyno shop it seemed to be a little on the rich side, but not too bad.. as for the boost controller I have the turboxs pro or something like that, i believe i paid like $120 for it.. its the one with the fine tuning adjustments and all of that. I'm not sure what the vacume source is.. i'd have to take a more detailed look. The other thing is, when im driving (not really hard, like 3500rpm in 3rd) and put the clutch in I hear a fluttering noise along with the BOV.. perhaps its just the blow off valve jolting around? i don't really have an ear for this stuff, its my first boosted car. I'm using the turbo specialties BOV, its the one with the big "horn" shaped thingie, haha. anyway thanks!!

 

Okay after more carefull listening and consideration I've come to the conclusion that the fluttering noise that i'm hearing is the wastegate. It seems when i really hammer on my car it won't make the sound but whenever i ease down on the accelerator or come off it slowly I hear the fluttering sound. I think there may be a way to tighten the wastegate "flap" up, perhaps with the actuator arm?

 

the wastegate does not open unless you're at full boost, so I doubt it's the wastegate. Most likely it's the BOV, maybe it needs to be adjusted? I'm not familiar with that particular BOV.

I really do suggest you make your narrow and wide throttle settings match, and when I put my car on a dyno -35 was BELOW 10:1 AFR. I think my final settings were -40 up to 5400, 5400 was -41, and above was -42, tuned (as best possible) with my techedge wideband. I still think you're running too rich...