FIA seat needed for HPDE???
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From: MEMORYFAB.COM
FIA seat needed for HPDE???
i was just curious. im not sure, the seat i have wont be FIA so will that be ok until i start competing in more than just open track days? thanxx
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From: One by one, the penguins steal my sanity.
Re: FIA seat needed for HPDE??? (SJR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SJR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you won't be "competing" in open track days, and stock seats or otherwise are fine as long as they are safe.</TD></TR></TABLE>
True.
Please use good judgement when selecting a seat and harness for lapping events. Just because there are not strict safety rules for these items does not mean you should not take the FIA,SCCA GCR, and other text into consideration.
True.
Please use good judgement when selecting a seat and harness for lapping events. Just because there are not strict safety rules for these items does not mean you should not take the FIA,SCCA GCR, and other text into consideration.
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From: MEMORYFAB.COM
Re: FIA seat needed for HPDE??? (Georgethefierce)
well for right now ill have a recaro spg knock off seat and a SRR harness which i know isn't FIA and the seat isn't either given its a knock off. i just wanted to be sure that i could use it for lapping days and what not. thanxx
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From: NoVA
Re: FIA seat needed for HPDE??? (spock_rocker)
I've been told by various instructors, don't use a harness for HPDE unless you have a rollbar. Very unsafe. Some instructors won't get in the car at all if you insist on wearing a harness without one.
Make sure the seat is mounted properly, tuck the harness out of the way (or just take it out complete for HPDE days), and use the OEM seatbelt.
Make sure the seat is mounted properly, tuck the harness out of the way (or just take it out complete for HPDE days), and use the OEM seatbelt.
Re: FIA seat needed for HPDE??? (genxguy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by genxguy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've been told by various instructors, don't use a harness for HPDE unless you have a rollbar. Very unsafe. Some instructors won't get in the car at all if you insist on wearing a harness without one.
Make sure the seat is mounted properly, tuck the harness out of the way (or just take it out complete for HPDE days), and use the OEM seatbelt.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I agree 100%. There is no way at a track event you should be using 5- or 6-point harnesses & racing seats without a rollbar
If the car does roll (it happens), the harnesses & seat will keep you in a full upright position & your head & spine will be crushed.
Also, if you have a rollbar & a non-FIA approved seat/ many organizations will require you to have a seat back brace (even for HPDE).
Make sure the seat is mounted properly, tuck the harness out of the way (or just take it out complete for HPDE days), and use the OEM seatbelt.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I agree 100%. There is no way at a track event you should be using 5- or 6-point harnesses & racing seats without a rollbar
If the car does roll (it happens), the harnesses & seat will keep you in a full upright position & your head & spine will be crushed.Also, if you have a rollbar & a non-FIA approved seat/ many organizations will require you to have a seat back brace (even for HPDE).
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From: cali
Re: FIA seat needed for HPDE??? (spock_rocker)
the way i read the GCR and my regional director told me to read it is as fallows-
If it is stock then its fine, as soon as you change something (safty wise) YOU must confirm to the GCR.
So that means since you have a NON approved seat, you will need a seat back brace to run it in an HPDE. And to run a harness you must have at minumum a roll bar, and the harness must be 5 or 6 point approved.
now i have heard different from people who do HPDE's from different regions, but this is the safest way and the way my regional director said to do it.
Also its how the Nor Cal tech inspector looks at it
If it is stock then its fine, as soon as you change something (safty wise) YOU must confirm to the GCR.
So that means since you have a NON approved seat, you will need a seat back brace to run it in an HPDE. And to run a harness you must have at minumum a roll bar, and the harness must be 5 or 6 point approved.
now i have heard different from people who do HPDE's from different regions, but this is the safest way and the way my regional director said to do it.
Also its how the Nor Cal tech inspector looks at it
Suspetise...
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From: Burninating the peasants yo
Re: FIA seat needed for HPDE??? (slammed_93_hatch)
Maybe my seats aren't the type, but I've never needed the back brace. Nobody has said anything about it anyways... Other than that, 
for rollbars with this setup. Or without, for that matter.
for rollbars with this setup. Or without, for that matter.
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From: Roanoke, VA
Re: FIA seat needed for HPDE??? (sscguy)
It's a lot about liability.
If you use the OEM setup WITHOUT modification, it was designed by engineers and tested by them. If it fails sue OEM.
If it is a COMPLETE racecar setup. belts,cage and seat, it is specified in the rules, tested and insurance company approved.
If YOU built it any other way, who designed it? Who tested it? Who will insure it? Now you leave it up to the tech inspector to say it's OK. He doesn't want that responsibility. It's not covered by the organization insurance. There is a possibility of a negligence lawsuit here.
Just an unofficial opinion.
If you use the OEM setup WITHOUT modification, it was designed by engineers and tested by them. If it fails sue OEM.
If it is a COMPLETE racecar setup. belts,cage and seat, it is specified in the rules, tested and insurance company approved.
If YOU built it any other way, who designed it? Who tested it? Who will insure it? Now you leave it up to the tech inspector to say it's OK. He doesn't want that responsibility. It's not covered by the organization insurance. There is a possibility of a negligence lawsuit here.
Just an unofficial opinion.
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From: RIP Craig Jones
Re: FIA seat needed for HPDE??? (sscguy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sscguy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Is the backbrace necessary for NASA insurance compliance?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Your seats are FIA stamped, so no.
RJ - putting an FIA seat in his car...
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Your seats are FIA stamped, so no.
RJ - putting an FIA seat in his car...
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From: ca, usa
Re: FIA seat needed for HPDE??? (sscguy)
when using a roll bar in nasa hpde events you only need a seat back brace if the bar has a diagonal or otherwise crossing bar to it like harness bar. if its just a straight up roll bar that just goes over and down both sides its cool to use a normal seat with no support.
misha
misha
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From: cali
Re: FIA seat needed for HPDE??? (EG TYPE-R)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EG TYPE-R »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">when using a roll bar in nasa hpde events you only need a seat back brace if the bar has a diagonal or otherwise crossing bar to it like harness bar. if its just a straight up roll bar that just goes over and down both sides its cool to use a normal seat with no support.
misha</TD></TR></TABLE>
what i and grumpy and RJ. are saying, I think, is that IF YOU MODIFY it from stock you must comply to the GCR, again this is saftey we are talking about here.
misha</TD></TR></TABLE>
what i and grumpy and RJ. are saying, I think, is that IF YOU MODIFY it from stock you must comply to the GCR, again this is saftey we are talking about here.
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Re: FIA seat needed for HPDE??? (EG TYPE-R)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EG TYPE-R »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">when using a roll bar in nasa hpde events you only need a seat back brace if the bar has a diagonal or otherwise crossing bar to it like harness bar. if its just a straight up roll bar that just goes over and down both sides its cool to use a normal seat with no support.
misha</TD></TR></TABLE>
I don't think so!
11.4.7 Roll Bars
All open cars should have a roll bar installed to help protect the occupant(s) from injury
during a roll-over. The roll bar should be able to withstand the compressional forces
involved in supporting the full weight of the car. The roll bar’s main hoop should extend
the full width of the car (except certain cars that have been approved by NASA). The
main hoop shall be one continuous piece with smooth bends and no evidence of
crimping or wall failure shall be present (i.e. should be Mandrel bends). All welds should
be of the highest possible quality, with full penetration [Ref
15.6.15)]. All cars with roll
bars are required to have adequate roll bar padding per CCR section #15.6.4. In cases
where the driver’s head may come in contact with the roll bar should the seatback fail, a
seatback brace is required in conformance with section #15.6.22. The material and
minimums are as follows: (All cars with full roll cages should conform to the applicable
sections found in section #15.0.)
11.4.12 Seats
All seats must be securely fastened to the structure of the car such that they are strong
enough to withstand a major impact. If replaced, the replacement seat should be
installed according to the manufacturer’s instructions.
If stock seats are to be used with a roll bar/cage, care should be taken to prevent the
seat from submarining under the rollbar. Care should also be taken to prevent the
occupant from hitting his/her head on the roll bar/cage.
Passenger seats must meet the same requirements as the driver seat, if used by
passengers.
15.6.22 Seat Back Support
A seatback support must be made to hold the seat from going back in the event of a
crash. A plate should be used to distribute the load. No bolts, corners, or sharp objects
should be placed is such a manner that could lead to a possible puncture of the driver in
a high impact crash. Proper design and installation is crucial to safety and it is
recommend that the driver employ the services of a professional race car builder for this,
as well as all other vehicle safety items. An exception may be made for those seats
homologated to, and mounted in accordance, with FIA 8855-1999 standards. Those
seats that qualify for the aforementioned exception must conform to the entire FIA 8855-
1999 set of regulations. This includes a mandatory seat replacement of any seat more
than five (5) years old. Please reference the FIA regulations. http://www.fia.com/
Modified by Grumpy at 8:27 PM 2/26/2005
Modified by Grumpy at 8:31 PM 2/26/2005
Modified by Grumpy at 8:34 PM 2/26/2005
Modified by Grumpy at 8:38 PM 2/26/2005
misha</TD></TR></TABLE>
I don't think so!
11.4.7 Roll Bars
All open cars should have a roll bar installed to help protect the occupant(s) from injury
during a roll-over. The roll bar should be able to withstand the compressional forces
involved in supporting the full weight of the car. The roll bar’s main hoop should extend
the full width of the car (except certain cars that have been approved by NASA). The
main hoop shall be one continuous piece with smooth bends and no evidence of
crimping or wall failure shall be present (i.e. should be Mandrel bends). All welds should
be of the highest possible quality, with full penetration [Ref
15.6.15)]. All cars with rollbars are required to have adequate roll bar padding per CCR section #15.6.4. In cases
where the driver’s head may come in contact with the roll bar should the seatback fail, a
seatback brace is required in conformance with section #15.6.22. The material and
minimums are as follows: (All cars with full roll cages should conform to the applicable
sections found in section #15.0.)
11.4.12 Seats
All seats must be securely fastened to the structure of the car such that they are strong
enough to withstand a major impact. If replaced, the replacement seat should be
installed according to the manufacturer’s instructions.
If stock seats are to be used with a roll bar/cage, care should be taken to prevent the
seat from submarining under the rollbar. Care should also be taken to prevent the
occupant from hitting his/her head on the roll bar/cage.
Passenger seats must meet the same requirements as the driver seat, if used by
passengers.
15.6.22 Seat Back Support
A seatback support must be made to hold the seat from going back in the event of a
crash. A plate should be used to distribute the load. No bolts, corners, or sharp objects
should be placed is such a manner that could lead to a possible puncture of the driver in
a high impact crash. Proper design and installation is crucial to safety and it is
recommend that the driver employ the services of a professional race car builder for this,
as well as all other vehicle safety items. An exception may be made for those seats
homologated to, and mounted in accordance, with FIA 8855-1999 standards. Those
seats that qualify for the aforementioned exception must conform to the entire FIA 8855-
1999 set of regulations. This includes a mandatory seat replacement of any seat more
than five (5) years old. Please reference the FIA regulations. http://www.fia.com/
Modified by Grumpy at 8:27 PM 2/26/2005
Modified by Grumpy at 8:31 PM 2/26/2005
Modified by Grumpy at 8:34 PM 2/26/2005
Modified by Grumpy at 8:38 PM 2/26/2005
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From: ca, usa
Re: FIA seat needed for HPDE??? (Grumpy)
hey grumpy,
maybe you didnte read what i said clearly. it only aplies to hpde events and there is no risk of submarining when there is nothing to submarin under.
stock seats can have no seat back brace only under those conditions.
if you have a harness bar or other type of bar lower than the ceiling then you need a brace.
that is all. oh and i confirmed this last year for myself because i was looking to getting a roll bar for hpde events.
and i use stock seats with an autopower bar.
misha
maybe you didnte read what i said clearly. it only aplies to hpde events and there is no risk of submarining when there is nothing to submarin under.
stock seats can have no seat back brace only under those conditions.
if you have a harness bar or other type of bar lower than the ceiling then you need a brace.
that is all. oh and i confirmed this last year for myself because i was looking to getting a roll bar for hpde events.
and i use stock seats with an autopower bar.
misha
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From: Roanoke, VA
Re: FIA seat needed for HPDE??? (EG TYPE-R)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EG TYPE-R »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">when using a roll bar in nasa hpde events you only need a seat back brace if the bar has a diagonal or otherwise crossing bar to it like harness bar. if its just a straight up roll bar that just goes over and down both sides its cool to use a normal seat with no support.
misha</TD></TR></TABLE>
It says roll bar and stock seat. You need a seat support to prevent your heat from going back and hitting or going under the roll bar. If you have a diagonal or cross bar and that prevents the seat from submarining, you probably don't need a brace.
You got it backwards.
misha</TD></TR></TABLE>
It says roll bar and stock seat. You need a seat support to prevent your heat from going back and hitting or going under the roll bar. If you have a diagonal or cross bar and that prevents the seat from submarining, you probably don't need a brace.
You got it backwards.
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From: ca, usa
Re: FIA seat needed for HPDE??? (Grumpy)
uh no you have it backwards.
the only way that is legal is if the back of your seat touches flush with the cross section.
i really hate to keep correcting you but you are spreading very false information.
if you dont think im right ask ryan flaherty yourself.
Ryan Flaherty
National Chairman
rflaherty@drivenasa.com
ive been over this with him in person and in emails and right now wish i still had those emails.
doesnt really matter what your interpretation might be the guy in charge says it like im saying it so that is the final verdict.
thank you and good night.
misha
the only way that is legal is if the back of your seat touches flush with the cross section.
i really hate to keep correcting you but you are spreading very false information.
if you dont think im right ask ryan flaherty yourself.
Ryan Flaherty
National Chairman
rflaherty@drivenasa.com
ive been over this with him in person and in emails and right now wish i still had those emails.
doesnt really matter what your interpretation might be the guy in charge says it like im saying it so that is the final verdict.
thank you and good night.
misha
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Re: FIA seat needed for HPDE??? (EG TYPE-R)
Ok well no I am confused, If I am running a car with a 4 pnt cage in the back with a diagonal bar as well as a horizontal harness bar, but I am running stock seatbelts, do I have to have a seat brace?
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From: cali
Re: FIA seat needed for HPDE??? (EG TYPE-R)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EG TYPE-R »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">uh no you have it backwards.
the only way that is legal is if the back of your seat touches flush with the cross section.
i really hate to keep correcting you but you are spreading very false information.
if you dont think im right ask ryan flaherty yourself.
Ryan Flaherty
National Chairman
rflaherty@drivenasa.com
ive been over this with him in person and in emails and right now wish i still had those emails.
doesnt really matter what your interpretation might be the guy in charge says it like im saying it so that is the final verdict.
thank you and good night.
misha</TD></TR></TABLE>
grumy is one of the head tech inspectors with NASA/and SCCA he has been around for ever.
the only way that is legal is if the back of your seat touches flush with the cross section.
i really hate to keep correcting you but you are spreading very false information.
if you dont think im right ask ryan flaherty yourself.
Ryan Flaherty
National Chairman
rflaherty@drivenasa.com
ive been over this with him in person and in emails and right now wish i still had those emails.
doesnt really matter what your interpretation might be the guy in charge says it like im saying it so that is the final verdict.
thank you and good night.
misha</TD></TR></TABLE>
grumy is one of the head tech inspectors with NASA/and SCCA he has been around for ever.
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From: RIP Craig Jones
Re: FIA seat needed for HPDE??? (EG TYPE-R)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EG TYPE-R »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i really hate to keep correcting you but you are spreading very false information. </TD></TR></TABLE>
No, you are spreading false information. Grumpy is a NASA tech inspector and really knows his ****. Read the damn CCR, its free - nasaproracing.com
No, you are spreading false information. Grumpy is a NASA tech inspector and really knows his ****. Read the damn CCR, its free - nasaproracing.com
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From: ca, usa
Re: FIA seat needed for HPDE??? (.RJ)
maybe the interpretation of the rules is different depending on the region of the country. i have had no issues at all running hpde events with my roll bar and stock seats.
thats just my personal experience
misha
thats just my personal experience
misha
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From: RIP Craig Jones
Re: FIA seat needed for HPDE??? (EG TYPE-R)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EG TYPE-R »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i have had no issues at all running hpde events with my roll bar and stock seats. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Technically, it wont pass tech per the CCR. The instructors make the call in the student's cars because they are the ones who tech them.
Technically, it wont pass tech per the CCR. The instructors make the call in the student's cars because they are the ones who tech them.