Well we received final word today from Jim Skelley that we will not be able to race with a dry sump or any external oil pump in NHRA SFWD at least in 2005 . Reasons being they don't want to let the class get away from them by going too fast. I know a couple people said this earlier - I was hoping we would be able to reason with them.
Not happy about the answer especially since we reaced 2 NHRA events last year with no tech problems , did not see this one coming but happy it came up now instead of at the track , I thought for sure that a weight penality would be acceptable if the reason for not allowing it was to slow the cars down - but NHRA doesn't see it that way. Thats life ! everything doesn't always go our way.

Focusing on March 19th Nopi right now - still have alot of work to get done to be ready. Once we see how the Prelude preforms we have some decisions to make.

Steve Sr.

 

sorry to hear that guys, great attitude..good luck this season..

 

sad part is that if it wasn't brought up, they probably wouldn't have been banned them...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by XXXRacing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">sad part is that if it wasn't brought up, they probably wouldn't have been banned them...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Haha, i've been to that show before!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by OaksRacing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I thought for sure that a weight penality would be acceptable if the reason for not allowing it was to slow the cars down - but NHRA doesn't see it that way. Thats life ! everything doesn't always go our way.
</TD></TR></TABLE>


man this is the first time I've seen a prelude ask for more weight lol. good luck

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by XXXRacing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">sad part is that if it wasn't brought up, they probably wouldn't have been banned them...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Brian, we were thinking the same thing.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by allm0t0rsir &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
man this is the first time I've seen a prelude ask for more weight lol. good luck</TD></TR></TABLE>

That is kinda of crazy, but we had the weight to spare. If they would have gone for a 100# penalty that would have made a 2 power adder and dry sump weight of 2600# - That would SLOW down the participant and really detour others from going that route. My personal view of life is that individuals should always be able to come to a compromise in almost any situation. This is one of those times NHRA could have maintained their goal of slowing down the class and making the high reving 4 cylinders more reliable - making racing better for the fans.

Steve Sr.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by OaksRacing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Brian, we were thinking the same thing.

That is kinda of crazy, but we had the weight to spare. If they would have gone for a 100# penalty that would have made a 2 power adder and dry sump weight of 2600# - That would SLOW down the participant and really detour others from going that route. My personal view of life is that individuals should always be able to come to a compromise in almost any situation. This is one of those times NHRA could have maintained their goal of slowing down the class and making the high reving 4 cylinders more reliable - making racing better for the fans.

Steve Sr. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Very cool....I like you

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by XXXRacing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">sad part is that if it wasn't brought up, they probably wouldn't have banned them...</TD></TR></TABLE><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by OaksRacing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


Brian, we were thinking the same thing.

Steve Sr. </TD></TR></TABLE>


[Well guys i'm sorry if i opened a can of worms.It was my original post that erupted all of this.I just didn't want to build my car only for NHRA or NDRA to tell me i can't run.That is why i asked.
Just don't understand why, if it was allowed last year,why my bringing it up caused a rule change.Making it the 4th or 5th rule change this year just for SFWD.
Do I think it's fair NO.but life isn't fair so take it as it comes.]

I Cut and paste the apology from the other thread,cause i'm not gonnna sit hear and type another apology.

 

No need to apologize. No hard feelings here. I wish this could turn out like the V-drive issue.

 

I Think that is just stupid...they should allow a single stage external pump...its alot safer for the motor....oh well...i guess its just another reason to run NOPI turbo 4 ... hopefully i will bring my car to 1 event this year!!!!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by OaksRacing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No need to apologize. No hard feelings here. I wish this could turn out like the V-drive issue. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I think this is the right way to think about this. This is an instance where people were only following the rules and attempting to make a safer more reliable car. There could have easily been a compromise made. Everyone has to remember, this sport is still growing into what it will become, and you have to be open to changes. The sport is obviously not where it needs to be yet, from a competetive racing standpoint. There is simply too much breakage right now, and that's only because this is still new. We have to find solutions to our problems, and rules stopping us from doing so are hurting the sport. I can't think of anything fans would rather see than competitive racing. Broken cars and oiled tracks are NOT the wave of the future! What do you expect the poor prelude guys to do? It's not their fault the stock oil pumps are not reliable. In my opinion, a perfectly fair compromise would be allowing an external wet sump pump or a dry sump pump with a weight penalty. When the issue is reliability, I think the rules should be a bit more conforming...

 

2 to NDRA for keeping an open mind!!

 

What happened after the worms came out of the can was that the NHRA figured that external oil pumps aren't a very common modification on most street cars. That's what this class was originally based on and they're making it clear that that's where they want to keep it. They're already done that with the air-to-water rule change. I think they see the reliability issue as something to slow the class down-- although, that's a pretty expensive way to do it.

Sorry to hear Steve. Look forward to watching you run in Arizona.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by XXXRacing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">sad part is that if it wasn't brought up, they probably wouldn't have been banned them...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Aint that the truth.

 

Question for all the Honda guys out there regarding the oil systems. If the NHRA is no longer allowing wet or dry sump systems what are you folks using? I know that Circuit Works makes the pump gears but other then that what are you guys doing? I've gotten to a point where we are making alot of power and still using the stock pump, but looking at changing the oiling set up. Thanks

 

no complaints with OEM

Mike...

 

There's 2 viewpoints to this issue.
1. There are the guys that want to do this modification to make the setup reliable.

2. Then you have another group saying that its becoming too much to compete in this class.

I think this issue lies deeper than just what parts are to be approved.

I know I'm gonna get some replies on this:

But I think THERE SHOULD be more Limitations in this class. I know we all want to get faster in this class and be #1, but you have to take a step back and see where this class and sport will go.

This class was started for the racer who couldnt afford to race Hot Rod. Now this class is becoming so complicated and requires just as much as building a Hot Rod car to compete. What happend to the PURPOSE of this class.
Yes there are plenty of us that are dedicated enough and have the money to build competitive cars to compete but what about the racers who this class was built for. The SPORTMAN racer who isnt in it to dump all their life savings to build a competitive STREET Car.

We have to look at the overall perspective of the scene. We need a class for the average weekend racer who can come out and have fun and compete in a non-bracket class. but what is happening is we're just pushing those potential new racers away.

We get plenty of calls from potential Sport FWD racers that we build race motors for, but many are hesitant to even build something close to a competitive car just because of the complexity that this class has become. This class should focus on potential new guys entering the class, not the ones already going faster and faster.

Sorry to take this topic in a diff direction.

 

Will, I couldn't have said it better myself.

I remember when we were looknig for something for guys with fairly healthy setups in their cars, but weren't ready to go pro. We tried and tried to come up with something like SFWD, and yet could never seem to come up with anything that would keep the spirit of the street car alive.

I think the NSCA type guys have the right idea with a 30 mile cruise before a race.

I have to admit, when folks like Hunt, Ballrd, and Cuhna went 9's I was kind of saddened. Impressed as well, but saddened none the less. There really aren't many street cars that can run 9's. It's an impressive feat to those who have pulled it off, but in reality FWD street cars aren't reliable 9 second rides. Not to say you can't, but on the average it's not going to happen.

I can agree with Tony about oiling systems and reliabilty, but I just wish that SFWd hadn't come as far as it has already. It's too hard to turn back now.

Clayton

 

wonder how much fun everyone is gonna have sittin on the sidelines with fucked up shortblocks, cause their oil pump took a ****........... (not just the honda guys either!!!!!)

rebuilding engines gets expensive quick, for the kind of thing that all of us are doing/tryin to do, this oil system is the only smart thing to do.

are we trying to get alll the competion that we can? or get rid of competitors due to busted engines?

i cant see a reason why nhra would not allow them?

would you walk on a bed of nails with no shoes on?

 

i blame this whole class getting to fast on jason and brian......

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by exospeedAMcrx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There's 2 viewpoints to this issue.
1. There are the guys that want to do this modification to make the setup reliable.

2. Then you have another group saying that its becoming too much to compete in this class.

I think this issue lies deeper than just what parts are to be approved.

I know I'm gonna get some replies on this:

But I think THERE SHOULD be more Limitations in this class. I know we all want to get faster in this class and be #1, but you have to take a step back and see where this class and sport will go.

This class was started for the racer who couldnt afford to race Hot Rod. Now this class is becoming so complicated and requires just as much as building a Hot Rod car to compete. What happend to the PURPOSE of this class.
Yes there are plenty of us that are dedicated enough and have the money to build competitive cars to compete but what about the racers who this class was built for. The SPORTMAN racer who isnt in it to dump all their life savings to build a competitive STREET Car.

We have to look at the overall perspective of the scene. We need a class for the average weekend racer who can come out and have fun and compete in a non-bracket class. but what is happening is we're just pushing those potential new racers away.

We get plenty of calls from potential Sport FWD racers that we build race motors for, but many are hesitant to even build something close to a competitive car just because of the complexity that this class has become. This class should focus on potential new guys entering the class, not the ones already going faster and faster.

Sorry to take this topic in a diff direction.</TD></TR></TABLE>

How many more limitations do you need??
This is why i suggest they make a new turbo class(street turbo),what the hell, they came up with Street Stock.They can make such rules as,limit the turbo to a T3,dot drag radials,front and back seats a must,no race fuel,make it true street class.

cause lets face it,like you said SFWD is for the people that cant afford running Hot Rod,for such reasons as X Trac,chasing the series,let alone the $ it takes to build the car,whether you believe it or not there is a huge money gap between SFWD and Hot Rod.Heck this year most Hot Rod cars will probably be touching 7's if haven't already.So why limit SFWD to 10's if the next step is Hot rod 7's.
I just wish most people would pay this much attention in helping the class progress instead of holding it back.

I say leave SFWD alone and make a Street turbo class,I was always tought to progress and move ahead,not to go backwards!!!

 

The NDRA runs the Power Street class at all of its events.

Single power adder, full interior, drag radial class.

That sounds like what you are looking for to me.

 

That's a great class Glenn.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NDRATECH &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The NDRA runs the Power Street class at all of its events.

Single power adder, full interior, drag radial class.

That sounds like what you are looking for to me. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I run T4,I was just suggesting that NHRA should pick up a class such as Power street for the ones complaining that SFWD is getting out of control,and they cant compete.

 

we'll just have to build a stronger pump gear..
oaks..it really is too bad..and as far as street cars..porche has used external pump for years.. and if you think about it all the k stuff
and mitsu pumps are driven off a seperate chain or belt ..they should have looked at the issue with the b and h series gear..on the subject of street air to water..what about the scyclone or the celica all-trac..street air to water....they should just make you run a radial
that would be fun to watch you guys roller skate all the way down