Dont Laugh (seriously), ITR Driving Basics
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Dont Laugh (seriously), ITR Driving Basics
Sad as it is, I think Im the worst ITR driver on the boards. This is my first manual car, and the R is going to have to suffer while I get the hang of this stick shift thing. Questions Questions Questions...
How smooth is it when you drive your R compared to an automatic ??
When approaching a stop sign, I usually leave the car in 2nd gear when I roll the stop sign at about 5-10 mph. As I start back up in 2nd, the car makes a whirring noise from going too slow, my question is if this is bad for the car and would it be better for me to just downshift to 1st then go to 2nd ??
My shifts from 1st to 2nd are jerky, my concern is that I'm not rev matching to the right rpm when going the certain speed... whats the difference with holding the throttle down to rev match and blipping the gas ?? Wouldnt the effect be the same ?? This also applies to launching... ive played some drag games online and they have you blip the gas when launching, I dont understand why you just cant hold the throttle down.
How smooth is it when you drive your R compared to an automatic ??
When approaching a stop sign, I usually leave the car in 2nd gear when I roll the stop sign at about 5-10 mph. As I start back up in 2nd, the car makes a whirring noise from going too slow, my question is if this is bad for the car and would it be better for me to just downshift to 1st then go to 2nd ??
My shifts from 1st to 2nd are jerky, my concern is that I'm not rev matching to the right rpm when going the certain speed... whats the difference with holding the throttle down to rev match and blipping the gas ?? Wouldnt the effect be the same ?? This also applies to launching... ive played some drag games online and they have you blip the gas when launching, I dont understand why you just cant hold the throttle down.
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Re: Dont Laugh (seriously), ITR Driving Basics (xunkn0vvnx)
S0 you are attempting to rev-match and are just learning to drive 5 speed?
If so STOP NOW! Learn to drive manual correctly before you attempt to alter how you shift gears.
<----
Edit: why are you starting from a stop in 2nd? When starting in first...rev to approximately 2k RPMs and let the clutch engage...you will find yourself starting the car much smoother
If so STOP NOW! Learn to drive manual correctly before you attempt to alter how you shift gears.
<----
Edit: why are you starting from a stop in 2nd? When starting in first...rev to approximately 2k RPMs and let the clutch engage...you will find yourself starting the car much smoother
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Re: Dont Laugh (seriously), ITR Driving Basics (xunkn0vvnx)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xunkn0vvnx »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How smooth is it when you drive your R compared to an automatic ??</TD></TR></TABLE>
Very smooth. My 97 Accord LX auto can't shift as smoothly as I can in my R.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xunkn0vvnx »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">When approaching a stop sign, I usually leave the car in 2nd gear when I roll the stop sign at about 5-10 mph. As I start back up in 2nd, the car makes a whirring noise from going too slow, my question is if this is bad for the car and would it be better for me to just downshift to 1st then go to 2nd ??</TD></TR></TABLE>
Personally, I shift into first when I'm stopped and take off in first. You can start off in 2nd without harming anything, but to compensate you'll need to launch from a slightly higher RPM or you'll lug the engine, which is not healthy for it. Since you're asking, I'd recommend just starting off in first gear.
EDIT: I reread what you said. If you're "rolling" a stop sign and not coming to a complete stop...
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xunkn0vvnx »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My shifts from 1st to 2nd are jerky, my concern is that I'm not rev matching to the right rpm when going the certain speed... whats the difference with holding the throttle down to rev match and blipping the gas ?? Wouldnt the effect be the same ?? This also applies to launching... ive played some drag games online and they have you blip the gas when launching, I dont understand why you just cant hold the throttle down.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
When upshifting, you don't need to blip the throttle. Selecting the next higher gear will put you in a lower RPM than the gear you're shifting out of. No rev matching should be done. As for giving the car more gas when launching, keep your foot on the throttle as you engage the clutch.
Very smooth. My 97 Accord LX auto can't shift as smoothly as I can in my R.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xunkn0vvnx »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">When approaching a stop sign, I usually leave the car in 2nd gear when I roll the stop sign at about 5-10 mph. As I start back up in 2nd, the car makes a whirring noise from going too slow, my question is if this is bad for the car and would it be better for me to just downshift to 1st then go to 2nd ??</TD></TR></TABLE>
Personally, I shift into first when I'm stopped and take off in first. You can start off in 2nd without harming anything, but to compensate you'll need to launch from a slightly higher RPM or you'll lug the engine, which is not healthy for it. Since you're asking, I'd recommend just starting off in first gear.
EDIT: I reread what you said. If you're "rolling" a stop sign and not coming to a complete stop...
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xunkn0vvnx »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My shifts from 1st to 2nd are jerky, my concern is that I'm not rev matching to the right rpm when going the certain speed... whats the difference with holding the throttle down to rev match and blipping the gas ?? Wouldnt the effect be the same ?? This also applies to launching... ive played some drag games online and they have you blip the gas when launching, I dont understand why you just cant hold the throttle down.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
When upshifting, you don't need to blip the throttle. Selecting the next higher gear will put you in a lower RPM than the gear you're shifting out of. No rev matching should be done. As for giving the car more gas when launching, keep your foot on the throttle as you engage the clutch.
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Re: Dont Laugh (Philly_NBP_R)
if i was going 40 mph at 4th, then there is a stop sign, I press the break til it's going 5mph, shift to 1st, let go clutch, the car will roll, then add gas and go from there...
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Re: Dont Laugh (seriously), ITR Driving Basics (xunkn0vvnx)
I don't think this is a silly question, and to you for asking. Learning how to shift (ANY car) is not easy. I bet most of us here remember what it was like to learn... even the old farts like me. I know I do.
Once you get the hang of it, it can be very smooth. But that can take a while.
When you're approaching a stop sign, you should come to a complete stop. If you're only slowing to 5-10 because you're having trouble getting the car started smoothly from a stop, then you might want to practice doing so (from a stop) in an empty parking lot. I can bet you that ALL of us had trouble learning this at first.
When you come to a complete stop, you should start moving again using first gear, not second. The trick in getting the car moving from a stop, without jerking, is to realize that there is a "sweet spot" in the clutch travel which is a progressive action; it's not just an "on off switch". Rev the car to about 2500 RPM, and let the clutch out GRADUALLY. When you hit the sweet spot range, the car will start to move. Continue letting it out GRADUALLY and as you do, you can start letting up slightly on the throttle, but don't just let off of it entirely, and don't do it all at once. The revs will drop slightly and as you do this, the engine speed will match the road speed as you let off the clutch entirely. The key is to get the car to start moving by varying the clutch pedal, rather than the throttle.
If you are in a situation where you need to slow it only to 10 mph (such as with a yield sign, for example), then yes, you can downshift to second instead of first. Any slower than that, I would use first.
Any time you are changing between two gears, rev matching is a good idea. It matches your engine speed to the car's road speed. That will give you the smoothest shifts, and will result in the least amount of wear on your transmission. Rev matching is NOT the same as blipping the gas. Blipping the gas means you are making the revs rise and then fall, so it makes rev matching almost impossible.
The gear ratios for the ITR gears in the stock USM five-speed are 3.23, 2.105, 1.458, 1.107, and 0.848. No, you don't need to do the math in your head while you're shifting, but these will help you figure out how the revs should change. As you can see, the lower adjacent gears (first/second, second/third) are in a ratio of roughly 3:2. That means that you can match revs when upshifting by setting the throttle at about 2/3 of your revs before the upshift. For example, if you upshift from first to second at redline (8400 RPM), you can hold the throttle around 5600 RPM (= 2/3 * 8400) and you'll be pretty close. (The actual number is 8400*2.105/3.23 = 5474 RPM.) At upshifts for the higher gears (third/fourth, fourth/fifth), set the throttle at about 3/4 of your revs and you'll be close.
I disagree with that last sentence. Rev matching should ALWAYS be done when shifting from one gear to another.
to you for asking. Learning how to shift (ANY car) is not easy. I bet most of us here remember what it was like to learn... even the old farts like me. I know I do.
Originally Posted by xunkn0vvnx
How smooth is it when you drive your R compared to an automatic ??
Originally Posted by xunkn0vvnx
When approaching a stop sign, I usually leave the car in 2nd gear when I roll the stop sign at about 5-10 mph. As I start back up in 2nd, the car makes a whirring noise from going too slow, my question is if this is bad for the car and would it be better for me to just downshift to 1st then go to 2nd ??
When you come to a complete stop, you should start moving again using first gear, not second. The trick in getting the car moving from a stop, without jerking, is to realize that there is a "sweet spot" in the clutch travel which is a progressive action; it's not just an "on off switch". Rev the car to about 2500 RPM, and let the clutch out GRADUALLY. When you hit the sweet spot range, the car will start to move. Continue letting it out GRADUALLY and as you do, you can start letting up slightly on the throttle, but don't just let off of it entirely, and don't do it all at once. The revs will drop slightly and as you do this, the engine speed will match the road speed as you let off the clutch entirely. The key is to get the car to start moving by varying the clutch pedal, rather than the throttle.
If you are in a situation where you need to slow it only to 10 mph (such as with a yield sign, for example), then yes, you can downshift to second instead of first. Any slower than that, I would use first.
Originally Posted by xunkn0vvnx
My shifts from 1st to 2nd are jerky, my concern is that I'm not rev matching to the right rpm when going the certain speed... whats the difference with holding the throttle down to rev match and blipping the gas ?? Wouldnt the effect be the same ?? This also applies to launching... ive played some drag games online and they have you blip the gas when launching, I dont understand why you just cant hold the throttle down.
The gear ratios for the ITR gears in the stock USM five-speed are 3.23, 2.105, 1.458, 1.107, and 0.848. No, you don't need to do the math in your head while you're shifting, but these will help you figure out how the revs should change. As you can see, the lower adjacent gears (first/second, second/third) are in a ratio of roughly 3:2. That means that you can match revs when upshifting by setting the throttle at about 2/3 of your revs before the upshift. For example, if you upshift from first to second at redline (8400 RPM), you can hold the throttle around 5600 RPM (= 2/3 * 8400) and you'll be pretty close. (The actual number is 8400*2.105/3.23 = 5474 RPM.) At upshifts for the higher gears (third/fourth, fourth/fifth), set the throttle at about 3/4 of your revs and you'll be close.
Originally Posted by 330R
When upshifting, you don't need to blip the throttle. Selecting the next higher gear will put you in a lower RPM than the gear you're shifting out of. No rev matching should be done.
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Re: Dont Laugh (typer rick)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by typer rick »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">don't ever downshift in to first</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well, I sort of disagree, but I understand what you're saying.
There's a philosophy of shifting that says, as long as you've got the car moving, you should get into second gear as quickly as you can. So yes, that would mean that if you're slowing down to, say, 5 mph, you would downshift to second.
OTOH, I can think of a couple of reasons why you might want to downshift to first instead of second. One is that first will give you better acceleration - so, if you're in a situation where you need that better acceleration, by all means, go for first. The other is that first will give you more engine compression if you need it; for example, if you're on a sharp downhill grade with a stop sign at the bottom of it, first gear might be just the thing to help slow the car down, once it's going less than 40 mph. There is a hill where I do exactly that, on the way back to the hotel from Grattan Raceway, in Michigan.
One thing you absolutely don't EVER want to do is to downshift into a gear where you would be exceeding redline after the downshift. Don't do it on purpose, and don't do it by accident. EVER EVER EVER. They call this a "money shift" because it can result in bent valves and other broken engine parts and will cost you a whole lot of money.
Well, I sort of disagree, but I understand what you're saying.
There's a philosophy of shifting that says, as long as you've got the car moving, you should get into second gear as quickly as you can. So yes, that would mean that if you're slowing down to, say, 5 mph, you would downshift to second.
OTOH, I can think of a couple of reasons why you might want to downshift to first instead of second. One is that first will give you better acceleration - so, if you're in a situation where you need that better acceleration, by all means, go for first. The other is that first will give you more engine compression if you need it; for example, if you're on a sharp downhill grade with a stop sign at the bottom of it, first gear might be just the thing to help slow the car down, once it's going less than 40 mph. There is a hill where I do exactly that, on the way back to the hotel from Grattan Raceway, in Michigan.
One thing you absolutely don't EVER want to do is to downshift into a gear where you would be exceeding redline after the downshift. Don't do it on purpose, and don't do it by accident. EVER EVER EVER. They call this a "money shift" because it can result in bent valves and other broken engine parts and will cost you a whole lot of money.
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Re: Dont Laugh (nsxtasy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxtasy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For example, if you upshift from first to second at redline (8400 RPM), you can hold the throttle around 5600 RPM (= 2/3 * 8400) and you'll be pretty close. (The actual number is 8400*2.105/3.23 = 5474 RPM.) At upshifts for the higher gears (third/fourth, fourth/fifth), set the throttle at about 3/4 of your revs and you'll be close.
I disagree with that last sentence. Rev matching should ALWAYS be done when shifting from one gear to another.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
This is interesting. Thanks for the info.
I'm curious how many here rev match during upshifts. I never have; only when downshifting.
I disagree with that last sentence. Rev matching should ALWAYS be done when shifting from one gear to another.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
This is interesting. Thanks for the info.
I'm curious how many here rev match during upshifts. I never have; only when downshifting.
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Re: Dont Laugh (nsxtasy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxtasy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The other is that first will give you more engine compression if you need it; for example, if you're on a sharp downhill grade with a stop sign at the bottom of it, first gear might be just the thing to help slow the car down, once it's going less than 40 mph. There is a hill where I do exactly that, on the way back to the hotel from Grattan Raceway, in Michigan.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Engine braking... I thought this was not good on the drivetrain. Thoughts?
EDIT: I did a litle search on this topic, I'll just look at those threads.. don't wanna open a can of worms
Engine braking... I thought this was not good on the drivetrain. Thoughts?
EDIT: I did a litle search on this topic, I'll just look at those threads.. don't wanna open a can of worms
Re: Dont Laugh (330R)
First of all. You shouldn't be "downshifting" into first.
-When coming to a stop. Step on the clutch and remove yourself from whatever gear you are in and use the brakes to come to a stop. You should be stepping on the clutch when u are around 15 mph or less.
-After coming to a complete stop. Press the clutch in, put the shifter into first and start on your way again.
(the hard part about driving the R is the sensitive gas pedal. You just have to get used to it. Try to keep your rpms around 1000 when engaging first) I just saw nsxtasy said 2500.....i guess when you are learning its ok to be around there, but as you get better at it you don't want to use that much gas going into first. As your foot gets more sensitive to the itr gas pedal you can lower those rpms.
Secondly when shifting up the gears. 1st to 2nd.....2nd to 3rd, there is no rev matching!!!!
Rev matching is a technique used to "downshift" , which you should not be learning yet. So forget the whole rev matching idea.
When upshifting just push in the clutch, let off the gas, shift the gear, then release the clutch, while SLOWLY pushing the gas pedal. After the gear has engaged you can push the gas how ever hard you want. But to prevent you from ******* the tranny over ...NEVER BLIP THE GAS BEFORE ENGAGING THE CLUTCH WHILE UPSHIFTING. You have to give it a little gas while at the same time lifting the clutch. I don't know if that counts as rev matching though.
It should be as smoothe as automatic and the R is easy to drive after getting used to it.
And engine breaking is VERY bad for the car. For now just expect to slow down in what ever gear you are in and then disengage the clutch when at lower speeds.
-When coming to a stop. Step on the clutch and remove yourself from whatever gear you are in and use the brakes to come to a stop. You should be stepping on the clutch when u are around 15 mph or less.
-After coming to a complete stop. Press the clutch in, put the shifter into first and start on your way again.
(the hard part about driving the R is the sensitive gas pedal. You just have to get used to it. Try to keep your rpms around 1000 when engaging first) I just saw nsxtasy said 2500.....i guess when you are learning its ok to be around there, but as you get better at it you don't want to use that much gas going into first. As your foot gets more sensitive to the itr gas pedal you can lower those rpms.
Secondly when shifting up the gears. 1st to 2nd.....2nd to 3rd, there is no rev matching!!!!
Rev matching is a technique used to "downshift" , which you should not be learning yet. So forget the whole rev matching idea.
When upshifting just push in the clutch, let off the gas, shift the gear, then release the clutch, while SLOWLY pushing the gas pedal. After the gear has engaged you can push the gas how ever hard you want. But to prevent you from ******* the tranny over ...NEVER BLIP THE GAS BEFORE ENGAGING THE CLUTCH WHILE UPSHIFTING. You have to give it a little gas while at the same time lifting the clutch. I don't know if that counts as rev matching though.
It should be as smoothe as automatic and the R is easy to drive after getting used to it.
And engine breaking is VERY bad for the car. For now just expect to slow down in what ever gear you are in and then disengage the clutch when at lower speeds.
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Re: Dont Laugh (jdmspoonitr)
I've never really thought much of it because I thought it was normal, but my transmission wont LET me downshift to 1st if going more than maybe 3 or 4 mph...... normal?
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Re: Dont Laugh (330R)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 330R »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Very smooth. My 97 Accord LX auto can't shift as smoothly as I can in my R. </TD></TR></TABLE>
then change that dam tranny fluid!!!!
Very smooth. My 97 Accord LX auto can't shift as smoothly as I can in my R.
</TD></TR></TABLE>then change that dam tranny fluid!!!!
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Re: Dont Laugh (tommymoose)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tommymoose »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've never really thought much of it because I thought it was normal, but my transmission wont LET me downshift to 1st if going more than maybe 3 or 4 mph...... normal?</TD></TR></TABLE> normal....if you try for long enough, it will eventually let you in. dont go any faster then that
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Re: Dont Laugh (tommymoose)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tommymoose »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've never really thought much of it because I thought it was normal, but my transmission wont LET me downshift to 1st if going more than maybe 3 or 4 mph...... normal?</TD></TR></TABLE>
It should if you rev match. I tried it once at somewhere around 15-20mph and all was fine. I don't really see the need to though.
It should if you rev match. I tried it once at somewhere around 15-20mph and all was fine. I don't really see the need to though.
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Re: Dont Laugh (TodaFiend)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TodaFiend »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
then change that dam tranny fluid!!!! </TD></TR></TABLE>
that tranny is on its way out, from a previous owner I'm sure. Makes some interesting noises under light load acceleration. 
then change that dam tranny fluid!!!!
</TD></TR></TABLE> that tranny is on its way out, from a previous owner I'm sure. Makes some interesting noises under light load acceleration.
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Re: Dont Laugh (jdmspoonitr)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jdmspoonitr »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
And engine breaking is VERY bad for the car. For now just expect to slow down in what ever gear you are in and then disengage the clutch when at lower speeds.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I do that sometimes when i make turns, was at 40mph at 4th, then there is a left turn, I use break to slow down to 15 mph, press in clutch, shift to 2nd, now i let go of the clutch slowly.. without adding gas.. is that engine breaking?
And engine breaking is VERY bad for the car. For now just expect to slow down in what ever gear you are in and then disengage the clutch when at lower speeds.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I do that sometimes when i make turns, was at 40mph at 4th, then there is a left turn, I use break to slow down to 15 mph, press in clutch, shift to 2nd, now i let go of the clutch slowly.. without adding gas.. is that engine breaking?
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Re: Dont Laugh (ITR0952)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ITR0952 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I do that sometimes when i make turns, was at 40mph at 4th, then there is a left turn, I use break to slow down to 15 mph, press in clutch, shift to 2nd, now i let go of the clutch slowly.. without adding gas.. is that engine breaking?</TD></TR></TABLE>
downshift at 15mph in 2nd.. you're at the lower end of the power band for that gear (sorry if not worded the best). I don't see that as engine braking.
Now, downshifting into 2nd at 40mph without rev matching, no gas.. that's engine braking.
I do that sometimes when i make turns, was at 40mph at 4th, then there is a left turn, I use break to slow down to 15 mph, press in clutch, shift to 2nd, now i let go of the clutch slowly.. without adding gas.. is that engine breaking?</TD></TR></TABLE>
downshift at 15mph in 2nd.. you're at the lower end of the power band for that gear (sorry if not worded the best). I don't see that as engine braking.
Now, downshifting into 2nd at 40mph without rev matching, no gas.. that's engine braking.
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Re: Dont Laugh (nsxtasy)
This migh help a little as well. This was my "Help driving a Manual" questions when I first started driving one as well 
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=721249
And remembering how it felt to ask these questions myself, good job for not trying to just be ignorant in fear of asking.
Just more help.
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=721249
And remembering how it felt to ask these questions myself, good job for not trying to just be ignorant in fear of asking.
Just more help.
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From: ITR owner... round three
Re: Dont Laugh (seriously), ITR Driving Basics (xunkn0vvnx)
You're at an advantage because Honda's are definitely the easiest to learn on.
BTW, I haven't driven a smooth automatic...
BTW, I haven't driven a smooth automatic...
Re: Dont Laugh (Utilitarian)
Until I got my car, I had only driven sticks in parking lots at work.
It didn't help that the clutch had about 10% of it's life left, but I stalled it twice on the way home. Never stalled it again except for on purpose when showing my car off to the stunnas and when I forget to put in in neutral while sitting. Sometimes I'm lucky and can slip it fast enough to get the car hopping like a lowrider.
It didn't help that the clutch had about 10% of it's life left, but I stalled it twice on the way home. Never stalled it again except for on purpose when showing my car off to the stunnas and when I forget to put in in neutral while sitting. Sometimes I'm lucky and can slip it fast enough to get the car hopping like a lowrider.