those of you that have ran R4 compound, any figures on how many hard track hours it can take? I'm on my 2nd set of panther+, i'm happy with them, no complains. but i think i should try R4 and also Hawk Blues for myself sometimes...

i spent about 3 hours at sears point and the p+ is about 1/3 worn, not too bad. i'm picking up a set of R4 for my fastbrakes 11.75" superlite IIA brakes but i'm not putting them on the car yet... i guess i'll get a set of R4 for stock calipers to try too.

 

Nothing Compares to Hawk Blues! R4 works well but doesn't last half as long as the blues. R4 dusts more, but isn't as corrosive(less metallic).

 

To answer the question...

R4 pads...
Life span
2 days (~3 hrs) at Lowes
2 days (~3 hrs) at VIR (N)

Chunking and cracking = thin material = tossed them

Will
-who has Blues now... and will try Carbotech soon
-who also has braking "issues"...


[Modified by Willard, 11:26 AM 1/17/2002]

 

I went to vir in dec and still expect another 10-12 hours from my P+

 

We put R4's on the front of MaddMatt's SE-R at VIR in December, and drove probably ~15 sessions (5+ hours of actual hot laps?) between us all weekend. They were about half-done at the end of the event. Although I am pretty easy on brakes, especially in a borrowed car, so my share of the sessions doesn't count for much.

IMHO the R4's are good, but not worth the significant additional cost compared to Hawk Blues or various Carbotechs. Also, you won't find better advice or customer service than Carbotech happily provides (even if they are selling you someone else's compound). OTOH, some people (including myself) have had various problems with Porterfield in the past...

Hope that helps,

Jon

 

I can backup the longevity of the Panter Plus. I ran them for 4-5 hours at Sebring (full course) in Dec. which is very hard on the brakes. I was amazed how much meat was left on them. I can say probably 1/5 worn. This is my first track pad so I cant compare to Blues or R4's, sorry. All I know is that im very happy with Carbotech.

 

Will and Robert --
aside from pad life, how would you compare the properties of the R4 pads to the others (panthers and blues) for factors such as:
ultimate braking performance
modulation response
initial bite
and whatever other parameter is relevant.

I've still got my "expo" pads (and tires) on, but the fronts are pretty thin at the moment.
As everyone knows, brakes only have to last the length of the race! hehe

 

i haven't run anything but Carbotech's but will say several things about them:

1. i never worried about fade through 5 full track days and I am pretty hard on brakes
2. i run without ABS and have no problem modulating the brakes
3. they have a great temperature range where they work
4. rotor friendly
5.dust is easily removable

through the 5 days on the track (3 events) i still have a little less than half of the pad left

i am yet to test them with a set of R compounds on my car which will be harder on them but am more than impressed and satisfied with their performance so far

 

Frank, I got two track weekends out of mine before I tossed them. One at VIR South (included a time trial at the end of each day) and one at Watkins Glen. So probably 6 hours and change?

 

I ran R4 pads for the first time at Speedtrial's last VIR event, and was pleased with them. Didn't show too much wear, were consistent throughout the sessions, and were easy to modulate. They are kinda pricey though.

I'd guess that pad wear depends a lot on how heavy your car is, what kind of tires you run ( street or R compound), and how you use your brakes. After two days (4-5 track hours) mine were just showing a lettle wear.

 

Ed,
Remember.. R4 pads are very streetable, if you can deal with the squealing and dusting... Hawk Blues are not streetable(Will tear your rotors up)although I have driven them to and from the track.
With that said.. They are both excellent material.. Some people tend to use more brakes than others, and I have noticed that those people tend to see a little more brake fade and/or early material degradation(cracking, discolor, separation) with the R4 than with the Blues. But then again, I watched one of Corey's Blues come right off the backing plate as well.
I think the R4 pads have a good linear feel as you apply the brake pedal, and feel great on track.. as long as you don't abuse them, fade is hard to accomplish, and initial bite is definitely there.
The Blues may take an extra split second for initial bite but they come on strong, and definitely don't run out of braking force.. Modulation is great and they are very hard to fade(I've never faded Blues).. You always seem to have brakes and bite is easily there, even at the end of a long braking sequence.
Blues are: harder on rotors, more corrosive to paint and wheels, long-lasting(Life is at least 2x that of R4), Harder to abuse and a better pad for people who use a lot of brakes.
R4 is better for street/Track use and will do great on track, also much easier on rotors but dust and squeal.
Any other specific questions?
I have not tried Carbotechs yet, but have heard decent things about them, however I think Blues are the ultimate pad for All-Track Use.

 

thanks for the feedbacks. i guess a better way to ask is, who here has _personal_ experience with R4 vs. P+ vs. Blue?

I've only ran P+ (no complain, does everything carbotech promised), and EBC red and green (they're ok but wears way too fast). Trying to see if i should try R4 and/or blues myself or just stick with P+.

 

The R4S is streetable...the R4 is NOT streetable...

As for Corey's Blues falling off the backig plate, this occurs with integrally molded pads, because the pad material will shrink from heat cycling, and the little "fingers" will also shrink and it will fall off.

Carbotech Engineering pads will not delaminate, even if you bend the backing plate, because we chemically bond and use safety rivets. We have numerous S2KCA members and S2000 owners nationwide who use our pads (Panther+, XP, and various other compounds) for aggressive street, track, and auto-x applications, and they have all reported excellent results. As usual, we strive to deliver equally excellent customer service and technica support to compliment our products.

If anyone has questions about our products and services, please feel free to send me e-mail at andie@carbotecheng.com or call us toll-free at 1-877-899-5024.

With Best Regards,

Andie


[Modified by CarbotechAndie, 1:43 PM 1/18/2002]

 

Frank, In contrast to the R4 times I described...I typically get 4 to 5 weekends out of a set of Hawk Blues. It should be noted that driving to and from the track with these is suboptimal.

I haven't used Carbotech pads in a couple of years. I only got one weekend out of them at the time, but that was the original Panther compound (not the plus). I understand the Plus is much more long lived, and intend to try them as soon as I run out of Hawks.

HTH...

 

This depends on your definition of streetable.. Jack and I have both used them as a dual purpose street/Track pad. Did they squeal? YES.. Did they Dust a lot? YES.. Did they hurt the rotors? Not that I could tell. Did they heat up fast enough on the street to be an effective pad? YES. By my standards R4 is a streetable pad.

 

XR4racer:

Yes, this is true...the subject of "streetable" is subjective...agreed. I should have written that based on my own experience, I have found the Porterfield R4 to be less streetable than other compounds offerring similar performance. Thanks for the catch.

Regards... -Andie