I saw a really neat graphic design on a car this past week at Daytona and want to use it in the future sometime. It's not a corporate design such as say the Target car or some other copyrighted logo or design.

My question is if a race team owns a design simply by using it. I would be copying the colors and the logo (which is not a corporate logo). The logo uses the head of an animal.

Could the team currently using it sue me or prevent me from using it. I do not plan to use their name only the color scheme and logo.

What are the rules on this. Anyone know.

My car would not compete in any series that they currently compete in.

Regards,

Jon P. Kofod

 

If it is not a resistered trademark, no problem. If it is registered, you can minimize the risk of copyright infringement by altering the graphics slightly and using different colors. If the design is not being used to generate income, generally speaking the worst thing that can happen is you'll be asked to 'cease and desist'. If you refuse and choose to fight it, it then becomes a legal pissin' contest. Since you are just a club racer, you'll most likely not have a problem.

 

its only legal if you paint it pink with little bunnys.

 

I can't speak to the legality of it, but why not just ask the race team that's using it?

 

It's easier to ask forgiveness than permission...

 

I would think that the design could be altered enough to be considered unique. Regardless of legality would you really want to make your car look just like someone else's car?

Do you have a picture of the car you're looking to emulate?

 

Did it look like this?





Alteration is key here. You want something that 'similar' not exact. I think if you called the team, they'd kinda be flattered that they have a design that other people like and probably won't complain. But the guy who actually spent the time with the design might. If they paid someone to do it... and it's unique, the designer might take issue.

So I defintely see both sides of the coin here.

 

Is it an actually picture or an artists rendition of the animal? I believe that any work done by an artist is trademarked to them. I forget the particulars, but a friend of mine is a graphic designer and mentioned something along the lines of that. I could get specifics from him if you need.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by KC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Did it look like this?



</TD></TR></TABLE>

HAHA ... I almost fell of my chair!

 

Let me know which livery it is and I can probably do a quickie visualization using different colors and altering the design slightly.

 

I'm sure its the Flying lizard livery.... that was a one-off for Daytona...

 

There's a big difference between a trademark (tm) or registered trademark (R), and copyright as applied to graphic design.

Trademarks or service marks are graphic elements or terms under which one is doing business and, since identity is understood to have value in the marketplace, marks may be protected. Putting the TM on there makes it clear that you intend for the use to in fact be a mark. A registered trademark just takes it one step further, assuring that you have official "dibbs" on a mark.

Copyright ain't the same thing. Anything I create - write, paint, draw, whatever - I own the right to, simply by creating it. It isn't even necessary to put a (c) next to it, or anything. It puts off claims of ignorance if you do so but doesn't really have any more legal clout.

Yes - if you change something, you are no longer obviously in violation of protection afforded under copyright law but I would wonder too why one would bother.

The graphic design of a racing car, if it is a mark under which the team is doing business (like a big Ferrari horse), can probably safely be assumed to be a trademark. A distinctive design that isn't is still protected by copyright, if the owner of the design decides to press the issue.

K

 

Every track in the Country has cars that mimic Pro Race cars either design or paint. No body is going to care. They would problably appreciate you copying them. Puts there car paint scheme and sponsor image out in the public view!

If it makes you happy, do it!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mtm68 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm sure its the Flying lizard livery.... that was a one-off for Daytona... </TD></TR></TABLE>

Man you guys are good

Yep it's the Flying Lizards. Not a one off. Seth Nieman has been running that team with those colors since 04 when they entered ALMS with a 996 RSR.

I just think it looks cool and think it might eventually work on a race car for club racing.

I actually know some of the crew member of the team and hung out with them in the pits this past weekend at Daytona. Got some cool hats and shirts.

It's a long way off as hopefully I am getting a new paint scheme this season for HC. But at some point down the road, either on another car or the Integra i'd like to try this design.

Regards,

Jon

 

Also looks good at night when out street racing

 

Yup !

 

Take the styling cues you like from their design, and make something that is your own. If you straight up copy them, not only is it possibly infringing on copyrights, it also makes you look like an unoriginal chump.

Mike

 

Jon-

Don't copy em' get something better. The Lizard thing is okay...

Contact Dan Beeson http://www.beesondesigns.com . He does the ECHC press, great illustrations, and many pro team graphics.


Modified by JohnW at 2:38 PM 2/9/2005

 

As Apple computer learned, you cannot trademark a "look and feel"


designs are fairgame


Modified by elgorey at 9:28 AM 2/10/2005

 

First off, yeah that is a pretty cool graphic.

There are a few possibilities here. If the graphic is a stock image, then the team might not actually own the graphic. It could be either "clip art" with free usage, or it could be something the team paid rights to use, like on a yearly basis, and on what they could use the graphic on.
Another possibility, and from what I'm seeing this is probably the case, they either highered someone to design it, or had a team member design it. In that case, it's their's. In that case whether they actually registered it or not, doesn't mean diddly, but the fact they are using it, and have "published" it means it's theirs.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Adrift &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It's easier to ask forgiveness than permission...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Easier, perhaps, but why waste your time if you're messing with legality issues. Going "way" back when I was in school for this stuff, you'll have to change the design by 2/3, primarily design, not just color. Yeah it's a judgement call as far as what counts as fullfilling 2/3 but at that point,... what's is the point?

As a graphic artist, I deal with folks coming to me on a regular basis asking me to violate copyright laws and reproduce stuff out of books and websites (photos and graphics). I tell them to obtain written permission.

Jon, if I were you I would simply ask the team, especially if you have already developed some type of relationship with them. I would bet they'd be flattered, especially since you're obviously a good driver.

If you're looking for a graphic with a similar "feel", I could probably help you out in that department.