Ok, so I've been in debate over both because I've heard good and bad on both for the past three weeks of deciding. I've got a 91 Civ hatch and going to have another 88-91 (I think it'll be an 89. We'll say 89 for this thread's sake) I'm taking the engine blocks from an LS integra (B18B1). The heads will both be B16A1's. I want to do a compare/contrast (or until I build one illegal for the street and only legal on the track) of Turbo's VS NA-All Motor. I'm building the first B18/B16 for my 91 which is a daily driver. Future plans for it are for it to be track-only. My question mostly is which car do I want the turbo to go in and which do I want to be all motor, or does anyone have an idea for something new to try? Please, only vote if you have knowledge on the situation...don't just click.

 

Here comes another argument..


If you want more then 225 hp then go turbo..
I say this becuase in order to have over a 200hp allmotor lsvtec you to do lots of porting run high compression, and run higher octane,and get nice cams,..

Its alot cheaper to hit 225 hp with a turbo then with an all motor set-up..Although the turbo set-up will require more maintence and every time you want tot add more boost you have to tune this tune that play with this,,,etc..Also turbos have lag..Although so will a all motor set-up..It wont have any low end power..

 

Hmm...very good call on all subjects. Oh yeah, by the way, please ya'll, don't argue, LoL. I just wanna hear facts. My goal for both is about 200-250. However, as everyone knows once we reach goals, we set higher ones. But at the same time I'm wanting to see how 200hp feels in my feather-weight ride. Cuz I'm expecting it to be fast. As for the track, I want to build an SCCA/AutoX/Road course. It might get some drag runs on the weekend for fun, but mostly it'll be road course. And for that I was sketch on having a turbo for dependability purposes. And I don't know how much power I'll want/need for the track. The street will be daily, so again, I don't want TOO much maintenance, just a fun daily driver.

 

Oh, and for reference...I have done a search and I have read them all, LoL. Trust me I've read them all several times. But I still can't decide. So I'm leaving it to Honda-Tech to decide for me I trust the powers that be in this forum, LoL

 

Whats your budget?

 

In time is for the most part unlimited. My car is my life, and I'll invest what it takes to make my dreams come true and build my goals. So I guess in reasonability my budget is probably about 7-10K per engine. Obviously it'll take time to do it, but the hardest goals take time, and the time only makes it more worth it.

 

Oh, and for anyone with experience with this/these setups, please stand by for helpin' me decide on parts...

 

7k-10k per engine damn..

You could build a very powerfull turbo lsvtec with 10k..
Spend about 5k on building the motor and accesories
3k for the turbo set-up
1k for the management
about 100/hr for tuning..

Man you could build a crazy motor with that money(Im assuming your building yourself) and make tons of power..Although its not really good for the street

 

The building I'm doing myself. I have this available money thanks to a manager where I work who's a car nut and wants to see this built. Also, many thanks to a two shops that'll be helping me out (Sinful Garage, south of Atlanta, opening this summer) and AutoDreams, located at the Kennesaw/Marietta border. Also ebay and nopi.com rock, LoL. As for the building, yes, it'll be done by me except where I don't have the proper tool(s)/equipment. And the tuning. Again, due to tools. And with that kind of power...my opinion is that if you CAN'T build it mostly yourself, you don't need to have the kind of power

 

What kind of "track" are you going to put the car on later? Road course or drag and as stated above if you budget is really what you say it is you could go ***** out, LS/VTec. B20 VTec, H22, and anyone of them can be turbo'd, I personally that the Bseries with turbo cause it is still fairly light and can handle well. But in the end do what makes you happy. Just don't ignore things such as bushing and wore out parts that will need to be replaced before you start making power

 

Already in consideration. Suspension and braking are among the first to be done before the engine actually goes in. Otherwise I know I'll get carried away. Anyone would, it's a given, LoL. As for the road course, I'm talking...SCCA uh...thinking best way to explain. Stuff like Road Atlanta. Like what le-mans does...except a cheaper and less timely race, LoL. As for the dragstrip, I'll probaly do that for fun only, not really competitive. And then for the street car I build I, as true builders love to do, will use only enough to show that 6ft. tall wings and 1000 decals don't give you horsepower.

 

Also, I considered the B20/B18C5 or C1 build and H22 I decided was just too much fabrication. The B20 I think would be AWESOME for drag, bad for road due to how much weight I have in the front with that setup. I want the B16/B18 block because it's a little less weight. Although I'll have the power to throw weight around and suspension to handle it (Skunk2 coils/KYB AGX strut, strut bars soon to coem as well as anti-sway bars by suspension tech) I prefer to lay-out on the light-weight factor these cars are driven by.

 

Well if you run a turbo you will have a hard time finding a home for the car to race in. I might suggest to you http://www.nasaproracing.com instead of SCCA, I know that we go RA (Road Atlanta), Roebling Road, CMP, Lowe's VIR, Talladega, just to name a few a couple times a year and some other tracks. However NASA just started a new class HU that allowed boosted Hondas. Just something to think about turning is more fun than driving straight IMO. If you want to come out and see and NASA event we will be at RA on March 19,20. This event will included Honda Challenge.

and LS doesn't really weigh anymore than a B20

 

So your advice is turbo for the street, NA-all-motor for the track? I haven't heard of NASA prior to this. I just read into a little bit...looks like something along the lines of what I'm looking for. I wouldn't mind doin' both if I could...thank you for the march 9th date, I'll mark my calendar...

 

NASA is an "split off" if you will of SCCA. SCCA seems to have gotten political and heavy ruled and NASA picked up and made their only system. I have to say I like it better than SCCA.

Yes some people do run SCCA and NASA

This is something worth checking out http://www.hondachallenge.com/ this is the HC series with NASA.

If you are interested in coming out to the March 19th event let me know it is free to spectate. And I am running my HPDE's (driving schools for licensing) in a 91 CRX hopefully with an LS swap. So PM if you want to meet up. And in the HPDE's you can use your daily driver (as long as it passes tech) or track car

HC also has 6 different classes from H5 (stock CRX DX) to H1 (essentially any honda car with any honda motor under a liter & weight restriction) to HU Honda Unlimited (anything goes, boosted cars, no NOS, any weight)

Just some food for thought to muddy the waters more

 

NOS scares the **** outta me anyways. Too deadly and unpredicatable. Not to mention I was raised and trained on american muscle with superchargers...so NOS wasn't in my vocabulary back then. Anyways, I was reading up on the classes and I'm considering the H5 class with my (for now) standard 1.5L hatch...

 

That is where my 88 CRX is going H5, My one friend currently runs in H1 and my other was is preping his H1 car as we speak.

And I as you was and am still into American muscle. My first car is the last one in my signature my Stang (pride and joy). Read up on NASA it sounds like what you are looking for.

 

Excellent build. I always wanted a 73 challenger or 70/71 cuda. Those are the good mustangs, LoL. I hope to hear from you and meet you at the track. And I'll be in touch if I decide to enter. I have some work before I can though. But it'll be fun I think if I make it. Did the H5 class require roll cage? I only got a chance to glimpse over the site. And making my 1500lb car meet 2200 (for teh B18 series race in the new rules) isn't gonna be the easiest...

 

All the classes require specific roll cages, but the HPDE's don't require roll cages because they are just driving school. I would suggest enrolling in an HPDE first and then decided from there. One word of caution, once you do an HPDE it is like a drug you want more and more....................

 

It's a legal drug, and a fun drug. Do you have a site or school I could/should check into that you'd advise?

 

Yeah read this first
http://www.nasaproracing.com/hpde/index.html

Just know that the HPDE's cost about $300 if you cool with everything above then go here. It is well worth it!


https://www.nasaproracing.com/joinrenew.html

once you do that then you can go here and register for your first HPDE

https://www.nasaproracing.com/...vents

This is just a good link for new people also

https://www.nasaproracing.com/....html

The other cool thing is if you are short on $$, you can work 2 events and get one free in that region. I am still doing my schools at this time but should be done this year to get my comp license so I can race.

On a side note you don't need an awesome powerful car either. I ran my first several events on pep boy tires(greesy as all get out), with my stock Multi Point CRX (not lowered, not anything pefectly stock) if forces you to learn the tracks and not overpower them.

 

Agreed. But I know that someday I'll plan to step up. Too many people get severely injured from too much power and not enough experience. Between you and I...I wanna stay outta the statistics...

 

As stated above you can come just to spectate or to do and HPDE. You are more than welcome to come hang out with us in the pits and just get a feel for what is going on. PM if your going to come out.

 

After much though, my first build I think is going to be all-motor. First it'll be on the street, and then brought to track-only when I get a second mode of transportation. The engine going into the second mode of transportation will be turbo'd and kept on street for daily use. Thanks all...

 

Oh, look for future posts on how the project comes. During this convo I've been researching. Tell me what you think. CP 10.5:1 psitons (looking for a quality rod to match up) Also looking for rings of high-quality... B18B1 block. Block gaurd (just in case. It can't hurt can it?) B16A1 head. Skunk2 stage-2 cam, skunk2: springs, retainers, pully's, exhaust, intake manifold. DC Sports exhaust manifold, custom piping. Still looking for air intake. Most likely to be cold air intake, but don't know companies in that all that well. Anyone more ideas (or if you note a part I left out...) fill me in...