Anyone with a civic coupe, prelude, or integra running no front sway bar at HPDEs?

I am considering removing mine, or have Saner manufacture a smaller diameter piece.

I am concerned with turn in and body roll mostly. The front springs are 490's and 390 rear. Si rear 13mm on a civic coupe.

So anyone with experience please chime in.

 

you can loosen the endlinks to effectively reduce the swaybar strength. try that first. also see if other models and trims have smaller front bars, it would probably be a direct fit.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you can loosen the endlinks to effectively reduce the swaybar strength. try that first. also see if other models and trims have smaller front bars, it would probably be a direct fit.</TD></TR></TABLE>

there is no other OEM front sway bar application other than the size that comes on the EX

 

ok. just try loosening the end links then. its a showroom stock trick, where you couldnt remove or change the bar, so they just gave it some slack so it lessened the overall wheel rate of the swaybar.

 

my car didn't come with one, i like how it handels and untill i become dissatisfied with it and belive it will help i don't plan on putting one on

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ok. just try loosening the end links then. its a showroom stock trick, where you couldnt remove or change the bar, so they just gave it some slack so it lessened the overall wheel rate of the swaybar.</TD></TR></TABLE>


thanks dude.
nothing like taking a piece out of true SCCA experience and applying it to my HPDE'r
that's first on my list of things to do when i roll it out in a few weeks

 

I dont think your problem is the thick front bar.

I think its your dinky 13mm rear bar man!!

swap in something beefier!
you wont have to deal with a sloshy car, and the balance of the car
will flip around from front to rear.

also do you have any strut bar up front?
if not I would recommend a good solid one,
it will noticeably help your turn in.

 

btw your car looks cool going around that bend

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I dont think your problem is the thick front bar.

I think its your dinky 13mm rear bar man!!

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I would rather not.
Subframe tear out
and uing a massive rear isnt the proper way to balance a car. A sway bar shouldnt mask poor choice in spring rates, but be used as a finesse tool to balance. Im better off using higher rear rates.
Iam just looking to reduce some mid corner understeer, not make a drift machine

 

Increase the rear spring rate... 550# would be a nice improvement - the car will still push with a rear bias'ed rate.

 

When you remove the front sway bar, its when you run a big REAR sway bar right to help the understeer right ???

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by yellowturbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">When you remove the front sway bar, its when you run a big REAR sway bar right to help the understeer right ??? </TD></TR></TABLE>

 

I just want to know if when you remove the front swaybar... do you have tu run a rear sway bar... its not complicated...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by yellowturbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">its not complicated...</TD></TR></TABLE>

It is when your post makes no sense

You should run both a front and rear bar, IMO.

 

i was running no front swaybar, 19mm rear swaybar, 10kg front and 12kg rear rates on my accord for autox....i'm planning on putting back the stock front bar for better turn in and body roll since i felt like i lost some...which you said was your main concern..no front swaybar did make the car rotate alot better though so....just see yourself how it goes and how you like it..takes like 5 minutes anyways

when i was running lower spring rates (slightly lower than yours) the front felt sluggish with no swaybar...felt better with a more beefier front swaybar...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Edwin_Bubbles &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would rather not.
Subframe tear out
and uing a massive rear isnt the proper way to balance a car. A sway bar shouldnt mask poor choice in spring rates, but be used as a finesse tool to balance. Im better off using higher rear rates.
Iam just looking to reduce some mid corner understeer, not make a drift machine </TD></TR></TABLE>

well no rear bar and a front swaybar(even if it is only 13mm)
is kindof the backwards approach to making a fast fwd car.

you're basically shooting yourself in the foot then trying to overcome it in other areas.

if you really dont want a rear bar, then i'd say yes, definetely ditch the front bar.

I'm currently running no bars on my hatch, and car is good.
I too am iffy about putting on a big rear bar.
But after seeing how much damn better it handles with a fully stiff rear and fully soft front(via my koni's) I know that tightening up the rear with a big swaybar will help.
however I will run an oem front bar at the same time to balance things out.

then if more tuning is needed either way, i'll do it with shock damping and tire pressure.

I wouldn't ever think to add only a front bar.. then try to work around it to get the car to rotate.. It doesnt make much sense, unless maybe you were only driving on really fast long sweeping courses, instead of tight short courses with lots of sharp turns..

but hey , perfect world right? heh

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm currently running no bars on my hatch, and car is good.</TD></TR></TABLE>

what rates are you running?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

well no rear bar and a front swaybar(even if it is only 13mm)
is kindof the backwards approach to making a fast fwd car.

you're basically shooting yourself in the foot then trying to overcome it in other areas.

I wouldn't ever think to add only a front bar.. then try to work around it to get the car to rotate.. It doesnt make much sense, unless maybe you were only driving on really fast long sweeping courses, instead of tight short courses with lots of sharp turns..

</TD></TR></TABLE>
You must have not even read my post
I have a front stabilizer (my car is EX- it comes standard)
and I have a rear 13mm SI sway bar

I didnt even mention adding a front stabilizer bar-but deleting it

My logic is this either: A. increase front grip or B. Reduce rear grip

As I understand it, a front stabilizer decreases grip, by limiting suspension movement-And the necessity of a massive front sway bar on road vehicles is to ensure understeer at the limit as prescribed by the government. If i delete it, or go to a smaller one, I have reason to believe i will be able to eliminate some mid-corner understeer that I suffer.

The track i most commonly race at is BIR and its mostly wide, long turns.

I have played with tire adjustments, shock settings, and so forth to no avail, the car has mid corner understeer like a SUV on ice

So i wanted to see if anyone had any good results from actually trying to do this. The only person that has given me any inspiration to persue this further is Tyson. I should be talking to showroom stock Si drivers really.
As .RJ mentioned before, you are not clear in your statements at all

 

Just because the car is looser (in the case of reducing rear grip by removing the swaybar) does not mean it is faster.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Edwin_Bubbles &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You must have not even read my post
I have a front stabilizer (my car is EX- it comes standard)
and I have a rear 13mm SI sway bar

I didnt even mention adding a front stabilizer bar-but deleting it

My logic is this either: A. increase front grip or B. Reduce rear grip

As I understand it, a front stabilizer decreases grip, by limiting suspension movement-And the necessity of a massive front sway bar on road vehicles is to ensure understeer at the limit as prescribed by the government. If i delete it, or go to a smaller one, I have reason to believe i will be able to eliminate some mid-corner understeer that I suffer.

The track i most commonly race at is BIR and its mostly wide, long turns.

I have played with tire adjustments, shock settings, and so forth to no avail, the car has mid corner understeer like a SUV on ice

So i wanted to see if anyone had any good results from actually trying to do this. The only person that has given me any inspiration to persue this further is Tyson. I should be talking to showroom stock Si drivers really.
As .RJ mentioned before, you are not clear in your statements at all </TD></TR></TABLE>

MMmmm you are right, I missread,
thought you wrote that you had a 13mm front bar alone.
My bad on that point.

But your problem is still understeer,
you have a 13mm rear, and a 22mm front.
might as well be a 13mm front and no rear, the resulting balance would be similar.

And I don't recall RJ saying that I wasn't clear on my statements.
sorry I missread, but I am really only trying to give you some advice here.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nonsense &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what rates are you running? </TD></TR></TABLE>

450f 350r
it's nice for a daily driven car,
and I can tune out some of that understeer caused by the soft rear rates via
the koni's..

450/450 would probably be nice imo.

I have tried swapping them around, at 350f 450r
but with a really low car like mine(eg hatch, fender is at the tire front and rear)
you really need more rate up front, or else bottoming out becomes a problem.

 

You need a big rear bar. No way around it - if the track is all long sweepers, its going to push no matter what you do. Learn how to LFB.

 

Its just HPDE's and im already top a 3 FF car there. I was just playing with the idea. As it turns out- a waste of time. Ill just perfect what I have. And like you mentioned, continue working on my LFB skills. Although in some sections i have been doing some late turn in lift-throttle oversteer drifts that are a real blast at 40-50 mph

 

I would still add a bigger rear bar - and are you running out of shock travel? Looks like it in that pic - tie a zip tie around your shock shaft at the bottom - and then after a session or two see where they end up (i.e. buried in the bumpstop).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would still add a bigger rear bar - and are you running out of shock travel? Looks like it in that pic - tie a zip tie around your shock shaft at the bottom - and then after a session or two see where they end up (i.e. buried in the bumpstop).</TD></TR></TABLE>

That could very well be. Of course it doesnt feel like i am contacting the jounce bumper (ive been in cars that have) but for some reason it wouldnt surprise me. Although I would have guessed with nearly 500lbs springs on street tires i just woudnt have the grip to compress it all the way to the shock.

This may sound odd, but I have also been considering just using R compounds on the front. Kinda of taking that JDM gymkhana tire sizing to the extreme

Its OK tho, like I said this car is just a fun side project, and in reality, does very well-beyond my expectations and puts on an impressive show at HPDEs

And that pic, thats on a really tight course, I dont really cater the car to that track as much as BIR. Where is wide open sweepers at nothing less than 50mph