Hey all, just joined the forum, seems like a pretty good resource.

I've read the rules but go easy on me as I'm not too sure what the in-house guidlines are like around here.

Anyhow, onto the question at hand:

I just bought this crx - http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBay...&rd=1

That price is in $AU mind you so keep that in mind before telling me I got ripped. It's an excellent price for this country, they are rather expensive over here.

Anyways, I'm keen to do an engine swap to get the performance up to scratch. It's in show car condition at the moment so that's all that needs to be done to it. I have no idea where to start, though. Price isn't really an issue... I'm already aware that I'm going to spend alot of money on this. But not as much as what the original owner already put into it! Heh...

What I would really like to know are the types of engines and subsequent mods that I should consider. I was told a 2.2 vtec with custom turbo would be my best choice. I did do a search on the forums and the only info I could find is that an F22 would be best, I have no idea what kind of engine this is, though. I did a bit of googling and found out that there are also B16-18, H22 and H23 that may be used in the CRX. I can't find any info on these engines, if I search for them I get a bunch of technical stuff from google.

Can someone please give me a brief idea of what each of these engines are (size, performance, potential, general compatibility with CRX's). Any comments... and I mean anything cause I know I have a lot to learn here... would be very appreciated.

Cheers!

 

man, you can get about a thousand responses to this. evryone has they're own preferences, and you can get a wide range of power out of each of those engines depending what parts you put on. but for stock power, the h22's have the most, but the swap can get down and dirty i hear. a b16 vtec has 160hp, and is pretty easy and popular with a lot of people. thats what im using is the b16. throw some boost on that and bolt ons, and ur gonna have a nice car with some pep. thats just my choice with my budget. all i can say is do a lot of homework and talk to as many people as possible

 

basics: H22= 2.2L
B18=1.8L
B16=1.6L
As for the motor its self. Well thats a whole new isuse.There are many aplacations. B18 can be anything. (A1,A2,C1,C5,ect) I have a 88'crx Si. it has a stock B16. Its best time has been 14.45 @92mph
Sounds like you already have goals. Just go threw them and do alot of research. Welcome to the club.

 

just checked the link to the car. that looks like a really sweet ride man. i don't know what to say. you got a nice looking car, thats for sure

 

cxdriver, glad ya like the ride. I was afraid a few people would harp on the big wing, I like it though. The pictures don't really do it justice, it is a draw dropping machine up close but unfortunately the power fails to impress... totally standard!

I did read that the h22 could be difficult. Any opinions on the f22? I will do as much reading in the meantime as possible.

91' LS-VTEC, thanks for the info mate. I do have goals, I want to get this car around 12 seconds. Perhaps I could get that out of a B18? I do realise I'll have to add alot of aftermarket performance stuff but I will sort that out after I decide on the engine.

Any other opinions out there?

 

how much is 11 thousand AU? in the U.S

 

I got it for 10 grand, and that's about $7500 US. Cars in Australia tend to be a fair bit more expensive then in the U.S, and in addition Honda's are very highly valued here.

 

If I had the chance to do it over. I would go with a B18c1 (gsr) swap. Good starting point. Will be very quick and once you slap a turbo kit together for it, you will hit 12's easy.

 

I found a good mech here and he said the same thing - a comprehensive after market upgrade, reforge and good quality turbo kit should get around 250hp out of it. It will take time and alot of money though.

I'll either go with that or the B16, as the 18's can be difficult and expensive to source here from what I was told.

H22 was out of the question, according to the mech it's much too difficult to put in and the money/effort would be better redirected into a smaller, more stable swap.

I would love to post pictures here to show it off once it's all done. What's the deal with posting pics... the rules say I can only post pics in one thread, but I see lots of photos on other threads still. What's the go with that?

 

hey, the biggest advice i can give you. is to consult this website everytime you want to do somethin to your car. why you might ask? because its already been done before. regardless of what friends and mechanics say..always consult honda-tech.

yes the h22 is a lot of work..but it doesnt go unrewarded. i've heard it will change the handling..but it would be an automatic 13 second car. and trust me..thats a world of difference compared to right now.

 

eeewwwwelcome j/k Its all personal preference! Welcome to Honda-tech

 

Well, I'll be honest. The rear bumper doesn't look good. The front looks good, the interior isn't a personal fav of mine but its clean and looks good. The wing is wack, and stock taillights would make it look better.

Othe than that, welcome to H-T

As for motors and performance, B18c (or any equivalent in your country) is usually the best bet. Especially in your case b/c you need to lug all that extra weight around.

BTW, what exact motor do you have now b/c i see that it's a 1.6. If you have a ZC, you might be happy just boosting it.

 

Well looks good . . . Personally get some stalk tail lights but other then that its clean.
I'm getin ready for a swap and i'm goin to go with the b16. Add a few bolt ons and it will move. Eventually i'll add some boost but good luck. You will get alot off different opinions but stick with what u think is right. Do your own thing and good luck

 

wouldn't have been my choice of car, but then again it's not my car and you're the one who has to drive it everyday. so if you're happy with it, then on your car.

as for what motor, the b series motors are the most commonly swapped motors into those cars. a bunch of places make mount kits, shiftlinkage, and axles, all of which you will need, and they sell them at good prices. my preference is http://www.hasport.com they make good quality parts.

a b18c1, also known as a gsr motor , is a good building platform for boost. just visit the forced induction forum on this site adn i'm sure you can find loads of help from people who have experience with turbos or any other kind of forced induction that you might want to do.

good luck with your car and welcome to H-T

 

well considering that car has already had the exterior modded pretty heavy and its basically a show car.... you have to get something great under that hood. i personally would steer clear of the b16. its some what limited on power because it is only a 1.6 ... now don't get me wrong its a great engine, but is that what you really want to put under the hood of that car? no. the b16 offers great power gains over stock that is for sure, but if you really want to complete that car do the swap right the first time.

start with a platform that can be upgraded time and time again. for me the best would be a b18 Its a 1.8 there are lots of upgrades for it it can make more power easier than a 1.6 could because of the extra .2 liters.... check for dyno graphs of some what stock b16 vs the b18 with the same boost levels and similar parts... b18 ownes.

do your homework you'll make the right decision

 

Hey guys, thanks heaps for the comments... I appreciate em all.

I'm pretty happy with the appearance, believe me when I say the pics don't do it justice. The tail lights look like **** on those pics but in reality they are alot clearer and they match the car fairly well.

If I can source a B18c for a good price I'll take it for sure. Only reason I wouldn't go for one as it'd cost twice as much than a 16... money that could be better spent elsewhere.

Manson, your advice has been taken onboard, I'll try and get ahold of one of those 18s if I can :D

I can't do h22 tho, I love power steering and air con too much...

Anyways that's all I have to say for myself. I won't be doing this for a few months, so I guess I'll just keep quiet, read, and learn as much in the meantime as possible.

Thanks for the warm welcomes fellas. I'll pop back once this bugger is ready to take off :D

 

 

Got a few minutes? I tend to be just a *little* long-winded from time to time...

Being as it's in Australia (haven't looked at the link or pics yet - dial-up sux), I'm guessing it's right-hand-drive. What engine does it have in it now? I'd *guess* it's probably a ZC if it's an Aussie-market car or a Japanese-market car. Some of that stuff might change a few things as far as what advice you get. For instance, the mount kit for a B- or H-series engine that's made for a US CRX might not take into account where some things are on a RHD CRX (brake booster and M/C, for instance). It'd really suck to find out things wouldn't line up correctly with the new engine and tranny in the car... That's *PROBABLY* not going to be a problem for you, but it's something to think about and look into. Finding someone with a car like yours and figuring out how they did stuff could help a ton.

Anyway, the B16/B18 choices are probably some of the easiest as far as bang-for-the-bucks go. They're proven, they're (relatively speaking) cheap, and they're plentiful. Some of the Japanese-market (and a few other markets, too) CRXs got B16s in them from the factory. Us poor bastards in the US had to make do with the 105-108hp (105hp for the '88, 108hp for '89-'91) D16A6 in the Si model, and even less than that for the lower models.

The F22 would NOT be a good choice. In case you're wondering, it was the stock motor in the '90-'93 Accord. Far as I know, no one makes a mount kit to get one into a CRX, and there'd be no point, really. The F22s we got in the US make from 130hp (F22A1) to 142hp (F22A6). Not worth the time, effort, or money to get this over-large, overweight pig of a motor in a CRX - especially when a DOHC ZC will drop right in on the existing mounts, use the existing tranny and wiring, and still offers 130hp. That's a "drop-in" swap assuming your car has a D-series engine in it.

For me, I'd probably be happy with a B18B. Not a ton of power (142hp in the US), but good torque (for a Honda), easy to find cheap (in the US, again), and parts are cheap and plentiful. These were in some of the '90-'93 Integras. Of course, if money isn't a big issue, a B18C1 (Integra GS-R) or B18C5 (Integra Type R) is going to be just about as easy to throw in there, depending on what you have to do about OBD requirements. The US models are OBD-1 or OBD-2, so they're a little more wiring to get into an OBD-0 car. I don't now what your government requirements are for such things, though, so it's hard to say.

Several people swear by turbocharging on D- and B-series engines. I'm older, and tend to remember more the times when turbos were more a source of problems than of power. And Honda isn't noted for offering turbo versions of many of its engines (there are a few, but not many, and not D- and B-series, if I remember right). Most of the turbo guys seem to like the B16 best for forced induction (better rod/stroke ratio, I believe is the reason). If you go turbo, and want it to last, you'd better look into strengthening the bottom end of the motor, though. Most Honda engines, including the D- and B-series at least, are "open-deck" designs; the top of the block and the top of the cylinders is not connected, making it easier for the cylinder walls to "wobble" and/or blow out under extreme pressure. Most good turbo engines use a "closed-deck" design to alleviate such problems. There are block guards available to help the Honda guys. Like it or not, the vast majority of Honda engines are NOT built for turbocharging. As another old Honda guy said, "Turbocharged Hondas tend to lead short, exciting lives." Hey, Honda absolutely OWNED Formula One back in the turbo heyday, but those engines seldom lived longer than two hours at most. Exactly long enough to get from the start to the finish, with the two-hour time limit imposed by F1.

[As an aside, Michael Schumacher had what was probably the greatest race-motor ever a few years ago - non-turbo, of course, nowadays. He took off, pulled out a HUGE lead in the Ferrari, and easily won the race, lapping everyone up to third place. He crossed the finish line, and on the parade lap or "cooldown lap", his engine grenaded itself in spectacular fashion! It made enormous power, and it lasted JUUUUSSSTT long enough to haul him across the finish line - a perfect race motor!!] Most of us would like our engines to last a bit longer, though.

Back to turbo Hondas: There are people who swear by them, and there are people making good power with them, and there are people who have turbo'd their Hondas and had good reliability. Those people, for the most part, have dyno time, money, and, above all, experience and expertise that the greatest number of us simply don't have at our disposal. And so far as I know, none of them have put 200,000 miles on their turbo engines after they made the change.

And yes, I freely admit that I'm biased on this issue. I'm not slamming turbo Hondas or hating on them, just pointing out some basic things to consider.

Anyway, look around, do lots of searches and reading, and think about what you want the car to do. Daily driver? Weekend toy? Drag racer? A little of each, with the ability to stretch its legs when the time permits? Surely there's a Honda engine that will fit the bill. D- and B-series engine swaps tend to be the easier ones (most B-series engines I see have power steering, so that's one less thing to worry about), while H- (later-model Prelude) and K-series (new Integra engine and Civic Si engine) tend to cost more and take more work to get in successfully. And they might not leave room for the power steering, which might suck for you, since they're also bigger and heavier engines.

Oh, and there are B16/B18 swaps that still get to keep the A/C, too. Which here in Texas, A/C shouldn't even be considered an *option*; it should be standard on every car sold! Not sure if an H- or K-series would leave any room for the A/C compressor.

Mike

 

kwicko hit it on the head.


as i was reading through the post people are saying mount kit and shift linkage.

as an australian crx you might have the nice advantage of being able to just bolt in a b16 swap with out any aftermarket mounts. i would assume so alteast since its right hand drive.


i recomend to work on sourcing a b16 swap im guessing from japan. closest place right.


then once you get used to that power start to look toward boost.


who knows his car could have a b16 in it stock.. but i would guess its a zc. i know nothing about ausi crx.

scarponze

 

Wow, thanks for the goldmine!

I really have no idea on what engine it has at the moment, but the B16A's are apparently quite common here in Aus, would they be the same as the ones you get in the US? I would hope so. The street scene here is pretty close-knit so it wouldn't be hard to find someone who has done this before - in fact the workshop I have chosen specialises in CRX's and other Honda's. They are expensive, but worthy.

Point taken on the F22, they sound like a real pain in the ****.

Since I made this thread I've been looking longingly at the gsr and type-r motors, they look very impressive. If I wanted to get one I'd have to bring it over from the states, they are very hard to find here. As you mentioned that could be a problem with lining things up but I am sure that my workshop can take care of that. If they can do a H22, they can do a B18C5.

I understand when you say that if I am going to turbo charge it, I had better do it right. As you say, rebuilding, reforging, reinforcing and all that. My best bet would be to find someone in the states who has already done the hard work of reforging an entire motor for high power turbo gains... it would be a hassle but it'd save a shitload of money... and I'd have a very unique motor :D

I'm not really after a drag car, more of a weekend and show car. Don't get me wrong though, I want this thing to be 100% and to absolutely ripsnort when I want it to. But it has to be driveable as well ... so anything over 300hp is really too much for a 1700 pound car, for my needs.

Anyways thanks for the help matey... good info.

 

Now don't get me wrong. The B16A is a fine motor. But getting a naturally aspirated B16A to run 12's in streetable configuration is certainly going to be a challenge. I myself have not even heard of it being done. But then again, not alot of people try. After all, it is so much easier to get this kind of power with a 1.8+ liter B-series motor. With this said, you might want to see if you can get a B18C (GSR or ITR). Also, you could get a B18A/B18B/B20B/B20Z bottom end, beef it up, and build an LS-VTEC or B20-VTEC. Either of these motors is capable of the kind of power necessary to run the kinds of times you want. Alternately, if you are stuck with a B16A, you could try to increase displacement by increasing bore and/or stroke. In fact, a B16A with a B17A crank and 84mm bore would displace over 1.8 liters. On the other hand, you might try to step up to the challenge of doing it with a stock displacement B16A. But remember - to the best of my knowledge, it has not been done.

 

I agree with stormin. Personally i'm goin to try and step up to the challenge of building a all motor b16a. I'm goin to start my project this summer. But if u got the funds go for the 1.8 GSR. Alot more potential. Or go with the ls bottom end and stick the gsr top end on it for the LS-VTEC. But like u said u dont know if ur workmenship can do it all so u may have to fork out some extra money for it to be done right. But in the end if it ends up right it will be worth it. good luck

 

b18a it!

 

What's the difference between B18A and B18C(5)?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Trist &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What's the difference between B18A and B18C(5)?</TD></TR></TABLE>

cams, pistons/compression, vtec, ecu... everything??