I'm a little clueless on all these parts but here goes.

Parts i'm talking about:
frame locks = http://www.korbachperformance.com/framelocks.htm
traction bar = z10 http://www.modacar.com/product...DATRB/
or LCON https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1038306
or Full Race http://full-race.com/store/pro...id=78

Question:
Assuming that the frame locks work, if I have a traction bar installed would there be any benefit 2 adding frame locks?

Why i'm asking:
I am not familiar with all the mounting locations but do the traction bar and frame locks strenghten the same area??


Modified by stealth512 at 6:34 PM 1/12/2005

 

I've never even heard of frame locks before. They sound like they work, considering Honda-Tuning is all up ons.

Will these work in addition to traction bars, or would that be pointless? Anyone have some info on these?

(by the way. fix your links, dude.)

 

your talking about 2 toatly different things, frame locks ARE NOT SUSPENSION, they are chassi, which does play a role in suspension but, the frame locks are not a part of the suspension.

Tractions bars, however are a part of the suspension. there was a fairly large thread about traction bars for road racing, and wether they were helpfull or harmfull

 

oh okay, because the pics kinda looked like they may be replaced when you put in a traction bar, as they're both close together. they also both have similar advantages (more stable at higher speeds, etc.). i'll have to check these out.

EDIT: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=939405

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Tractions bars, however are a part of the suspension. there was a fairly large thread about traction bars for road racing, and wether they were helpfull or harmfull</TD></TR></TABLE>

Do you have a link then?? I'm interested to know just from a technical standpoint.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MugenDude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Will these work in addition to traction bars, or would that be pointless? Anyone have some info on these?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
This is basically what i'm asking.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">your talking about 2 toatly different things, frame locks ARE NOT SUSPENSION, they are chassi, which does play a role in suspension but, the frame locks are not a part of the suspension.

Tractions bars, however are a part of the suspension. there was a fairly large thread about traction bars for road racing, and wether they were helpfull or harmfull</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes I realize that the frame locks are technically not part of the suspension (although since it does play a part..I thought it belonged in the suspension fourm). But minus the part of the traction bar that actually attaches 2 the lower control arms...you have this bar that connects front end together. And with the frame locks...your trying to connect the front end together (yes?).

So does the bar from the "traction bar" make the frame locks useless?

Or does the frame locks tie up something thats "loose" (can't think of a better word)?

 

[QUOTE stealth512]So does the bar from the "traction bar" make the frame locks useless?[/QUOTE]

Actually I think the frame locks may be useless either way. There hasn't been a whole lot of third party evidence that they work as described.

The 'traction bars' are a valid peice for two reasons. One is it can stiffen the whole front of the car. The other that I think most people don't really realize is that the rod ends / heim joints are a much better solution then the rubber bushings that come from the factory, and will provide better movement through the range of motion and also not deflect as much causing unwanted (temporary) castor changes.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dirk-EG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Do you have a link then?? I'm interested to know just from a technical standpoint.</TD></TR></TABLE>

sorry don't remeber it was rather long, try searching for traction bars in the RR forum alot of knoledgable people commented on them and dissagreed im not sure what the out come was

 

Don't laugh...

I swear this thing did wonders for the front end.



http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...&rd=1

 

the integra sub frame brace bar did wounders on my car. that little bar make a big diffrence in how solid the front end felt. and way more responsive.
not bad for 50 bucks.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turboman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I swear this thing did wonders for the front end.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

It might do wonders 2 my front end 2 if it wasn't for my old school DC sports header stopping the install (even after I dented it a bit).

Anyways...anyone else have some imput on the original question?

Apparently the frame locks stop something from vibrating? (something 2 do with the engine and mounts, or maybe i'm talking out of my ...)

 

Framelocks lock the front bumper support to the chassis in a more rigid way, thatz all.

We (European cars) dont even have that bumper support bar and some of our EG's/EK's have superb handling qualities.

The Tractionbars is a drag thing, isnt it? If it negativly changes suspension travel *up/down* i dont see how it could contribute to better handling, but I'll search to slammed his topic and will look it up.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dirk-EG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The Tractionbars is a drag thing, isnt it? If it negativly changes suspension travel *up/down* i dont see how it could contribute to better handling, but I'll search to slammed his topic and will look it up.</TD></TR></TABLE>

thats exactly what some people said the traction bars did, and the others point to car like the 90-93 integra and the 88-91 crx/civic.

 

Okay so I looked at the topics and found that if you have the proper traction bar (jimfab/fullrace) then the bending is the geometry of the suspension will decrease without losing suspension travel, therefor keeping the proper toe&caster under heavy steering, brakeing and dragging.

The EF CRX uses a different front crossmember with busings all the way in front of the 'reactiestangen' (dutch word) tensionbars? something of the sort anyways, which always give a little room for twitching.

imho traction bars will work and will add handling @ a loss of comfort as the twitching in the suspension is caused by busings giving leaway.

 

Traction bars are designed to stop the LCAs from moving back under extreme power. That bar between the tow hooks is just meant as a mounting point for the radius arms that attach to the LCAs. If it increases chassis stiffness, that's a happy byproduct but I don't think chassis stiffness was ever a goal with traction bars. Anyway, the tow hooks are not on the same plane as the frame rails, so bracing them here is not as effective as bracing them with the bumper support as do the frame locks.

Frame locks are designed to brace one frame rail to the other.

As you can see, one product braces the LCAs from power coming through the axles, and the other braces the frame rails from load that comes through the control arm mounting points and from torque on the engine mounts. They are not the same thing and they dont accomplish the same goal.

 

Little off topic, but anyone know when the frame locks will be available for 92-95 civics?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shaundrake &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Traction bars are designed to stop the LCAs from moving back under extreme power. That bar between the tow hooks is just meant as a mounting point for the radius arms that attach to the LCAs. If it increases chassis stiffness, that's a happy byproduct but I don't think chassis stiffness was ever a goal with traction bars. Anyway, the tow hooks are not on the same plane as the frame rails, so bracing them here is not as effective as bracing them with the bumper support as do the frame locks.

Frame locks are designed to brace one frame rail to the other.

As you can see, one product braces the LCAs from power coming through the axles, and the other braces the frame rails from load that comes through the control arm mounting points and from torque on the engine mounts. They are not the same thing and they dont accomplish the same goal.</TD></TR></TABLE>

AHHH...Thank You..this is exactly the info i'm looking for. Now I understand more how it works.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HollywoodEG2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Little off topic, but anyone know when the frame locks will be available for 92-95 civics?</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you look at there site or search on the net there already releasing "beta" versions 2 there "testors". So I imagine it won't take long.

 

I can't believe how much those frame locks cost ($200+)! It would also seem that if you rear ended someone, your more likely to suffer frame damage with those things.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94eg! &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It would also seem that if you rear ended someone, your more likely to suffer frame damage with those things.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That was one of my concerns but if you look at their placement the frame locks are installed behind all the low speed collision absorbers. The frame locks are also designed to crumple in a stronger head-on collision.