Just got the plates for the CRX a couple days ago. All was well today on the way to the Auto-X and most of the way back I actually lucked out becouse it died about a 1/4 mile from my house and I coasted to the gas station across the street from my house.

Here's what happened. After taking the exit to get to my house I was giving it some gas...Maybe 80MPH in 5th gear...~4000RPM. After letting off the gas to coast to my driveway in neautral it just died?? I put it back in gear but when I hit the gas I got nothing. It turns over all day long but doesn't start.

-I checked the main relay- It clicks when I turn the key on. At this time I can hear the fuel pump run for a couple seconds, followed by another click of the main relay. Everything I've read about this sounds right.

-Timing Belt- No missing teeth(that I can see). Seems fairly tight.

-Ignition- When I shoot a little starter fluid in the intake, and try to start it, it sputters. To me, the fact that it's even sputtering says it's getting some sort of spark. Also when I lay a spark plug on the valve cover it sparks when I turn it over

I was just guessing that it has something to do with maybe the distributor being out of wack or it still not getting fuel. I'm leaning more toward the fuel but I don't know what the problem is since I can hear the pump run when the key is turned to on.

Any Ideas

Yes there gas and it's good gas. Drove about 80 miles today before the problems started

-Mike

 

Timing belt "seems" tight... That could still be the problem, though. I've had a timing belt go before, and it was still on and still tight - the cam gear had just sheared off all the teeth on the belt where it laid on the gear!

To check it, have someone crank the car a little (cranking a car over with a bad t-belt is NOT a good idea, but you've already done so - as did I when mine went under similar circumstances as yours - and you're not going to damage the valves any more by trying to crank it over a time or two). Anyway, have a person crank it over while you look at the cam through the oil filler, or look at the cam gear and t-belt. Make sure that when the engine is cranking, the cam is turning also. If it's not, your t-belt is gone.

Other than that, I'd say look first at your ECU to see if it's throwing any codes, and go from there.

I've also had THREE different Hondas die on me this way ('88 CRX Si, '90 Integra LS, '91 Accord LX) where it turned out to be the distributor. The bearings inside the dizzy housing get old, wear out, and then destroy themselves. Pull off the distributor cap and look for a reddish-brown coating of dust all over the insides of the cap and the distributor. That's a good sign the bearings have finally given up the ghost. While you've got the cap off, check to make sure that the distributor rotor is on the shaft FIRMLY, and the screw that holds it is still there. I've actually had that happen to me twice, too ('88 CRX Si and '90 'Teg LS). It'll stop the car dead.

When you say it "sputters" with the starter fluid... does it STUTTER, or does it start for a couple seconds and then die? Usually, a little shot of starter fluid will actually get the car to start and run for a couple seconds. If it's really sputtering, I'd say it's probably NOT your fuel system (since you just bypassed it when you sprayed the starter fluid directly into the airstream). That would point more to a timing/distributor issue.

Check all the cheap stuff first, THEN start buying parts. Sounds like simple, stupid advice, but you'd be amazed at the number of times I've forgotten it over the years!

Hope it helps,

Mike

 

Oh - on the bright side, at least you got to autocross today! When my '87 CRX Si died under similar circumstances, it was just as I exited the highway going INTO the races! It wasn't as simple as a bad dizzy or shredded t-belt, either; the alternator shorted, the batter exploded, and it took out every electrical component on the engine. Blew the fuses and fusible links, killed the ECU and distributor, and I had to replace the battery and alternator as well. And THEN I had to replace the instrument cluster, because it blew out my tachometer! Kinda sucked. I still don't trust that car (but I can't let it go, either).

M

 

Right on Mr Kwicko..

 

By the way, from what you've described, your main relay sounds fine. That would have been my FIRST suggestion, since it's a common failure item on these cars.

 

88DXCRX: Nice image. Really brings back the memories. That's exactly what the belt on my '91 Accord looked like when it happened. Funny thing about the F-series engines: TWO timing belts! A lower that spins the balance shafts, and in turn spins an UPPER belt that turns the cams. Fun one to replace, too. Not. Freaking engine is built like a Japanese puzzle-box!

Mike

 

Thanks for the tips Kwicko!

I checked a couple more things this AM. I didn't have anyone else to try to start the car for me so I put a piece of tape on the T-belt and rotor. Turned the engine over for a sec and both pieces of tape moved

So it seems the T-belt is fine And the dizzy bearings arent locked up

What makes you so sure it's not a fuel problem? I was guessing since it stutters only when I spray the starter fluid in there it might be fuel related.

I'm going back out to look for ECU codes now...

Mike

 

OK, I checked for codes and I only get a quick pulse of the led when I turn the key to ON. It this normal to show that the ECU is powering up or is this a code 1?

If it's a true code would it repeat itself over and over?

Mike

 

yea if it was a code it would keep repeating.

 

Igniter, coil ignition components should be checked. Those are just as common as the main relay.

 

I just tried something else. I jumpered all the spark plugs together together and grounded them then turned the engine over. They all have spark and the firing order is right. Also after watching to make sure the firing order was right I smelled gas. I hooked up the plugs and tried again but still nothing

WTF else could it be. What would be most likely cause it to die after a 40 mile @ 80MPH trip?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Cory man &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Igniter, coil ignition components should be checked.... </TD></TR></TABLE>

Just saw this. Could this still be the problem after my last test showed spark on all plugs?

Mike

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GoKart &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Just saw this. Could this still be the problem after my last test showed spark on all plugs?

Mike</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes....Id check your ignitor otherwise pull the cap off and look at your contact points, because your getting spark doenst mean its good spark, also did your rotor fall off? come loss?

Aside from the fact that this is the first thing id ever check as a mechanic, I have had this actually happen to me, I was driving home and all of sudden everything went dead, I downshifted and I had even more loss of power, when i could get it to start it was backfiring really bad and had no power...I thought for sure great I lost the T/B.

Well after I got it home I checked the distributor and I pulled my rotor right off the dist. shaft....it cracked around the screw that holds it on and was still delivering spark but was free willing on the dizzy shaft. I replaced with one I had laying around from another distributor and all was well.

 

i've had this happen to my 91 civic twice since i bought it in 99. the first time it was my ignition coil. check your distributor and related parts completely. just because you have spark doesnt make it good spark. also what do your plugs look like? make sure you've got fuel flow through your filter and do a flow test off the fuel regulator.

the second was alot different, the coolant temp sensor hiccuped and the ecu thought the engine was cool so it tried to fast idle and flooded the engine. this took me weeks to figure out. take your plugs out and let the cylinders try to dry out. keep the holes covered but not pluged.

are your injectors firing?

if you determine you have good spark, trying pushing the gas all the way to the floor and crank it, for at least 10 seconds. it tells the ecu theres a flood condition and it stops delivering fuel and tries to ignite off the fuel in the engine.

if it is close to starting it may have flodded because of the temp sensor. too much gas is wetting down the compression. in teh end this is what i had todo:
remove your spark plugs and give each cylender a shot of motor oil, about 1 tablespoon per cylinder, but NO MORE than 2. too much and it wont do ****. put your plugs back in adn start it. but do NOT give it gas. you'll blow a ton fo smoke for about an 30-min to an hour.

the good news is if this is the problem it will likely never happen again. btu if it does, replace the coolant temp sensor.

if you tried to start it alot before you actaully got it going, you might have gas in your motor oil. so change it asap or kiss your motor goodbye. i did mine right away.

just my 2 cents. good luck.

 

OK, I took off the dizzy and it took me about 10 minutes to find where the rotor screw was. You wanna know why? Becouse the screw was covered by about 1/4" of melted plastic from the rotor

How easily is the dizzy supposed to spin once removed from the engine?

Mine spins but I have to use pliers to do it

Anyone had this happen or heard of this before?

Mike

 

shouldnt take pliers to spin it.

 

Regardless of which engine you have-1.6 Si or a swap-there is a very good chance that you have a failed distributor. I had this happen while on track during our first run. The Crank Angle Sensor failed inside and is not replaceable. Yes you must buy another dizzy. How to be sure this is the problem--uncover the ECU, which is in the passenger footwell. There is a round window on it-look at it while you turn the key to the ON position. If you get 4 short flashes that is the failure code for the CAS. There are other codes of course. The normal reading should be a very quick single flash that tells you the ECU is OK.

The fact that you are telling us you have to use a tool to rotate the dizzy says the bearing is fried. This is also the cause of the CAS failure and is very common on older Honda cars. You can get a replacement distributor overnight from Distributor King. He is the best for the lowest price anywhere. BRAND NEW and comes with a warranty.
Good luck

 

Shoudl spin with just your hands.

 

Thanks for all the help guys!

After searching for "melted rotor" it seems like this has happened a few times before. Overheated Dizzy bearings melted the rotor and other plastic bits inside the Dizzy. The excess heat warped the rotor and likely caused the timing to be all F-ed up

Just ordered a new one from the DizzyKing. I'll find out if this was the problem on Tuesday when the new one gets here.

 

the spark should be a bright blue if its red there is a possible problem, and it should be consistant

 

Sorry to have missed out on all the excitement; I stayed offline all day today ('til now, at least).

Sounds like you've found your problem area. The dizzy should spin easily between two fingers. Sounds like it's toast, but you've already figured that out.

The reason I was pointing away from a fuel problem was because you said with starter fluid sprayed in it, it still just sputtered. That points to either no air, or no spark, since we KNOW it's getting fuel. If you spray starter fluid straight into the TB, there are no obstructions between it and the valves and combustion chamber. If your fuel pump, fuel filter, or even if all four injectors were toast, the car would still start and run for just a couple seconds - long enough to burn up the starter fluid you sprayed in the TB. Since it wasn't doing that, the signs were pointing toward an ignition problem (no ignition due to no reliable spark, or no ignition due to bad timing caused by belt slippage or breakage).

One overly-simplified way to start troubleshooting a car: An automobile engine needs three things to run: air, fuel, and spark. Once you find out which one you don't have, the fun starts - trying to figure out why you don't have it, and where exactly the problem lies.

It sounds like a new dizzy will put you back on the road in no time. And it should be the last one you ever have to put on your car, or at least on that motor...

Mike

 

Thaks again.

The new dizzy only needs to make it through the winter. I have a donor car (95EX) that I'm gonna steal the Z6 and necessary parts from in the spring/summer

 

UPDATE:

Replaced the Dizzy today. Got it overnight from http://stores.ebay.com/DISTRIBUTOR-KING Started right up

New plugs, oil and tranny fluuid and she's good as new!

BTW, I've only had the car 2 days and auto-Xed it last Saturday. I ran in SM2 becouse that's where I usually run but if I was running in G-Stock (where the car belongs) I would have placed 6th in overall PAX for the day! The car has 206,000 miles and it's completely stock. The car seems really predictable at the limit. I'll try it next time with some Ecsta V700's

Mike