Just out of curiosity, how many people are selling these things now? It seems like every other day we see a post on who's making and selling them. I think it's funny. I give big props to Full Race for being an innovator and to One Fab for being original.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just out of curiosity, how many people are selling these things now? It seems like every other day we see a post on who's making and selling them. I think it's funny. I give big props to Full Race for being an innovator and to One Fab for being original. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm not being a smartass, just asking a serious question...
What is it that makes them innovators and original?

 

marketing, duh

 

Well, as far as i know Full Race was the first to market that style manifold made of sch. 40 pipe. I'd say they're the innovators because they're always working on something new. Just about every one of their products has been copied at some point, while they came up with the originals. The B series "ramhorn" manifold is by far the most copied. One Fab makes and sells manifolds made with sch 40 pipe, but has a unique design.

It's more or less the people who use pipe rather than tubing that are copying each other. Hell, nobody uses tubing anymore! If you look back about 2 years on here, there are a bunch of posts with Geoff explaining what a collector was and showing pics of theirs, now there's 50 people on here selling collectors!

 

There are alot but i think ?Kooks(sp)? was the designer of the Ramhorn mani? Correct me if i am wrong, in which case i may be. . . But this is what i always thought.

 

That's what i'm saying, I guess the rant is about using pipe rather than tubing just as much as anyting else. Full race "copied" the kooks design, with different materials, which changed the style of it. You can look at a kooks and a full race next to each other and not have any problem at all telling them apart, right. You can say that about full race and many of the copies as well, but the thing that makes them look so different is the quality...

 

theres only so many design's you can create with un cut 90 EL's...

I think im gonnna flash back to my stock block day's and re-create an SS autochrome

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just out of curiosity, how many people are selling these things now? It seems like every other day we see a post on who's making and selling them. I think it's funny. I give big props to Full Race for being an innovator and to One Fab for being original. </TD></TR></TABLE>
You just opened an ugly can of worm
Full Race for being an innovator anf One Fab for being orginal?

 

Yea but when you say tubing i think square tubing. I mean i work in a pipe fab shop and thats what we call it there. When we use super thin pipe we still call it pipe. So basically Full-Race just used better materials i.e. thicker "pipe" than what Kooks was using...

 

Tony1, why dont you rant about how full-race charges $1200 for a manifold made out of $4.50 plumbing pipe?

People charging $800 is probably what they are worth. You can only charge so much for a manifold when everyone knows how much work is involved and how much the materials cost. Not to mention having no overhead of a shop and no employees allows these people do offer more competitive pricing.

I thought simple physics said, heat gain=energy gain, heat loss=energy loss and with .125" sidewalls and lots of surface area that equates to a lot of loss energy. Anyone that would make a turbo manifold out of thin wall 16gauge SS304 would be insane because they would suggest bracing the turbo. Everyone knows a turbo manifold is made to support the weight of the turbo, who gives a crap if it it could be more efficent if you swapped materials and installed 2 1/4" steel braces.

SUPPORT MY TURBO DAMNIT! {edit due to typing too fast and not proof reading }


Modified by loseneon at 9:49 PM 1/5/2005

 

I'm not saying I agree with using pipe, I use 16ga 321 tubing on mine. I'm just tired of seeing the same posts, look at my manifold. Open it and it's a full race looking manifold. Or collector posts, same ****. Oh, and sch pipe is pipe, tubing is different. Pipe is forged, not mandrel bent, right?

So full race charges too much, that's why there are so many identical knock offs?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by loseneon &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Tony1, why dont you rant about how full-race charges $1200 for a manifold made out of $4.50 plumbing pipe?

People charging $800 is probably what they are worth. You can only charge so much for a manifold when everyone knows how much work is involved and how much the materials cost. Not to mention having no overhead of a shop and no employees allows these people do offer more competitive pricing.

I thought simple physics said, heat gain=energy gain, heat loss=energy loss and with .125" sidewalls and lots of surface area that equates to a lot of loss energy. Anyone that would make a turbo manifold out of thin wall 16gauge SS304 would be insane because they would suggest bracing the manifold. Everyone knows a turbo manifold is made to support the weight of the turbo, who gives a crap if it it could be more efficent if you swapped materials and installed 2 1/4" steel braces.

SUPPORT MY TURBO DAMNIT!</TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree with your opinion on the Full-Race prices, but people pay for it. Its their name. They pay for the quality, customer service, and they are paying for their piece of mind that the **** isnt gonna crack, or that a chunk of contaminated slag will come off from the inside where no one could see it and destroy a turbo...

But with that said...

There always gonna be people will sell a product for less, if not Full-Race would have no competition and that would suck for the poorer builders out there that want the performance of Full-Race but cant afford to come out of the pocket. You have to look at it this way...

If someone was gonna buy a cheap mani, they were never in the market for a full-race. If someone was gonna purchase a full-race mani, they were never gonna buy anyting cheaper...

Full-Race targets a completely different market as far as i'm concern'd. Thats ***** like effin Louie Vuitton and i dont need that. I can settle for something that gets the job done for cheaper...


You guys can expect Full-Race to chime in on this thread, and i want all to know that this is an opinion and to take it lightly...

---&gt; Full-Race, there **** is bomb and customer service is great!
---&gt; to DIY'rs that need to pay for their addictive car habits!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
So full race charges too much, that's why there are so many identical knock offs?</TD></TR></TABLE>

This and that there easy to build... Thats why they are being copied in mass quantities...

 

I think you're right, they are on two different levels. It's the 15 other people, on the lower price level, that are marketing and selling the exact same product as each other. Someone out there make something different for gods sake.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by untitled &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I agree with your opinion on the Full-Race prices, but people pay for it. Its their name. They pay for the quality, customer service, and they are paying for their piece of mind that the **** isnt gonna crack, or that a chunk of contaminated slag will come off from the inside where no one could see it and destroy a turbo...

But with that said...

There always gonna be people will sell a product for less, if not Full-Race would have no competition and that would suck for the poorer builders out there that want the performance of Full-Race but cant afford to come out of the pocket. You have to look at it this way...

If someone was gonna buy a cheap mani, they were never in the market for a full-race. If someone was gonna purchase a full-race mani, they were never gonna buy anyting cheaper...

Full-Race targets a completely different market as far as i'm concern'd. Thats ***** like effin Louie Vuitton and i dont need that. I can settle for something that gets the job done for cheaper...


You guys can expect Full-Race to chime in on this thread, and i want all to know that this is an opinion and to take it lightly...

---&gt; Full-Race, there **** is bomb and customer service is great!
---&gt; to DIY'rs that need to pay for their addictive car habits!</TD></TR></TABLE>

i totaly understand what you are saying , i make the full-race style manifolds, and you get what you pay for , the full-race stuff is the lets say ferrari enzo , where my stuff is more like a civic with a turbo , they both are fast , but the one is more refined and top notch as where the civic is cheap and still fast , but in the end they are both cars , kinda see my point , just have to target diffrent levels of buyers and what there bugets allow them to do with there cars , and i try to make a nice manifold for a affordable price ,

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think you're right, they are on two different levels. It's the 15 other people, on the lower price level, that are marketing and selling the exact same product as each other. Someone out there make something different for gods sake.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes. Theres only been 2 companies as far as i concern'd that are REALLY good in the craft and charge considerably less than Full-Race. One being LoveFAB(Tinker219) and the other being Neukin (toyosupr). Both are bouncing and dont do just one type of manifold...

Kudos to both of these guys

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C1CYA &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

i totaly understand what you are saying , i make the full-race style manifolds, and you get what you pay for , the full-race stuff is the lets say ferrari enzo , where my stuff is more like a civic with a turbo , they both are fast , but the one is more refined and top notch as where the civic is cheap and still fast , but in the end they are both cars , kinda see my point , just have to target diffrent levels of buyers and what there bugets allow them to do with there cars , and i try to make a nice manifold for a affordable price , </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes. I didnt know you were making manifolds too... hrmm, interesting...

Be sure to coin your own style. I dont see anyone copy'n the peakboost style which is a variation of the ramhorn but is more true to being equal length...

 

i was playing with the idea of doing it and decide to go for it , there are some other guys making them , and iam targeting them ( the rams horn style ) , i feel mine is of nicer quality and is cheaper priced, there realy isnt that many pics of the peak boost mani around to look at, that i have found any way ,

 

There only difference is that they stick a small 1-1 1/2 inch straight section at the top of the #1 & #4 runners to even out with the length of the #2 & #3 runners since they are a tad longer...

 

How about not worrying about finding pics of someone elses to copy. Spend some time to come up with your own design. Sit there with some weld els and try something, there's plenty of unique ways to do it. Don't be afraid to be different.

 

and they 45 the 1 and 4 runners at the head flange , i would like to see some collector pics of that mani,

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How about not worrying about finding pics of someone elses to copy. Spend some time to come up with your own design. Sit there with some weld els and try something, there's plenty of unique ways to do it. Don't be afraid to be different.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Agreed

Just pointing out the subtle differnces on an existing design to make it better...

Always think outside the box... And trust me, there is a manifold coming out soon that will definetly be and "out of the box" design down to the collector never thought of. . . Keep on the lookout for it...


I'd like to see a super short true equal length mani to harness the most possible exhaust energy...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How about not worrying about finding pics of someone elses to copy. Spend some time to come up with your own design. Sit there with some weld els and try something, there's plenty of unique ways to do it. Don't be afraid to be different.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Iam not afraid to be diffrent , just at the moment trying to offer something better than what is out there for the money( under 600) in the ramshorn style manifold , and as far as pics that where most ideas come from and how you can better some thing ,

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by loseneon &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I thought simple physics said, heat gain=energy gain, heat loss=energy loss and with .125" sidewalls and lots of surface area that equates to a lot of loss energy. Anyone that would make a turbo manifold out of thin wall 16gauge SS304 would be insane because they would suggest bracing the manifold. Everyone knows a turbo manifold is made to support the weight of the turbo, who gives a crap if it it could be more efficient if you swapped materials and installed 2 1/4" steel braces.

SUPPORT MY TURBO DAMNIT!</TD></TR></TABLE> Sorry but you have a couple of things wrong.Heat does make power.But not the way you mean.If you have a thick manifold.It is cooler than the exhaust coming out of the port right?So when you hit the throttle it takes a while to warm up.So it is actually cooling DOWN the exhaust
gas instead of heating it up.Until it saturates.Now wouldn't you think the thinner that the tubing is the faster it would saturate.And I don't care what you make a manifold out of .You should brace it.Or its just a matter of time before breaks.
And the part of Everyone knowing that a mani.is made to support the turbo ..Well nobody hipped me to that dude. And i spelled efficient correctly for you.

 

lets break this up into two different points since two points were made and have this continue to be a decent topic vs useless DIY vs Company garbage

The first thing Tony1 has brought up is design the second is matieral

Design: That FR Style manifold or whatever you call it, calls for decent flow, proven numbers, bandwagon jumpers up the wazooo and relative ease in construction. If there is a market to scoop up(people who dont have $1200 for a manifold but want the $1200 manifold but can afford $600 and someone is willing to sell it for $600, why not offer a product for that price if you can and willing?

Would it be more interesting to see different designs and such? of coarse, but it took FR nearly 2 years to even dyno test their manifold vs a log after claims of a faster spool. So even the company you give props to made false claims due to poor product testing. So even FR with their engineering degrees and the amount of time spent on designing their manifold have come to flaw, what will happen with Regular Joe just trying to make something that works and looks cool? Everyone wants that "this was engineered" garbage even if the engineers were wrong.

Second, i would like to hear some opinions on using different materials because there are two sides of the arguement from what ive read.

Thicker stuff absorbs more heat but it also doesnt let heat to the outside in as quick of a rate. Thinner stuff doesnt absorb heat, but whatever it does, it immits immediately. Which is better? What are the pros and cons?

EDIT: to the poster above, i was being HIGHLY sarcastic. Sorry i didnt note that with sarcasm tags