well, I know what they are good for: shorter throws and consequently faster shifting. What I am really asking is:

1- have people using them noticed increase wear on the synchros as a result (I would guess yes...)
2- are they useful in road racing applications? While I see the immediate advantage in drag racing, I am dubious as to just how much of an improvement one would see on a race track.
3- any particular product brand experiences, both positive and negative?

thanks.

 

1-My observation is yes, lots of cars that I've seen or have heard of with transmission failure were equipped with a short shifter. Now I am not well versed in transmissions, but the added wear and tear does make sense to me. (something about not giving the synchros enough time to do their job.)

2-Not sure if the advantage on a road course warrants the (I'm guessing) wear and tear on the transmission. It would make sense that yes, it could help.

3-Stay away from "Tenzo R" I've seen one break in a driver's hand during an aggressive shift. One of chrome-moly may be a better choice.

 

I use a short-throw shifter simply to reduce the vague/sloppy feeling of the shifter on my 98k-mile car (and previously, my 140k+ mile car). It's not that I can (or do necessarily) shift faster, but the feeling of going up or down through the gears is much more positive and direct and sure - which means less missed shifts on street and track, and a more enjoyable driving experience IMHO.

On the track specifically, the short throw shifter aids in rev-matched downshifting. While there was an involved amount of right arm movement to get from 4th down to 2nd under braking previously, it can now be done with three flicks of the wrist. Again, not necessarily faster, but definitely more efficient.

As for brands, the cheapie Pacesetter one is what I have. It's been in both my cars, and it seems to work absolutely fine. I've heard good things about the DC Sports units as well.

Hope that helps,

Jon

 

First off we need to understand WHAT a SSS does for the car and how it does it. We all know that your shift is shorter with one. The travel from one gear to the next is usually 30-50% less. How does this happen? The design of an SSS is not rocket science and you can make one yourself at home if you can weld. All a SSS does is move the fulcrum pivot angle higher up on the shift lever. On a standard shifter the pivot ball is in the middle or lower on the shaft. A SSS unit moves the pivot ball higher up. This equates into more distance covered at the bottom of the pivot in relation to a shorter distance on the top. Try it with a pencil right now. The SSS manufacturer may add more angle into the bottom half but this is more for smoothness and correction of the angle of attack to the tranny since the unit is sitting lower. With that said it is completely feesible for someone to build a SSS in their garage with nothing more than a hacksaw, some steel tubing and a welder. I have seen many Honda guys successful with lengthening the bottom half of their stock shifters (this was in the day when you couldn't go to DC sports or Sp(o)(o)n and get one). Cost was about $5.

With that said we can get into stress. The construction/design of the shifter determines the amount of stress inflicted on the transmission. Damage occurs largely due to overthrowing (going beyond the mesh point). One thing that is common on a good shifter for a Mustang or other domestic V8 are positive stops. These are usually bolts that prevent the shifter from going too far. Maybe import trannys have these stops built into them thus these external stops aren't necessary but I don't know.


This is the Steeda Tri-Ax shifter. Notice the 2 bolts running in from the front and back of the collar. These are the positive stops that prevent overthrows.

Mike: Syncros mesh at specified RPMs so there is no "waiting" for them to do their job. Either you are at the synchro point or you aren't.

One thing to watch is that the throw is TOO short. I remember back in my days of Gen. 1 CRX tuning there was a company called C's that made a great unit for the cars - except the throw was too short and as a result the car would sometimes pop out of gear or grind going in because it wasn't going far enough. I think that most units nowadays are a pretty standard length.

 

Cobra, That was a great description on the working of a short throw shifter. On second generation Preludes we just shorten the top section of the shifter and rethreaded it for the ****. Gave the same effect as a short throw. Cost was just a little time.

 

Well that is because the pivot on a Prelude shifter is below the fulcrum point. Gotta love that design for "ease of modification". If I am not mistaken I was told that the reason no one made anything for a Prelude for such a long time was because people were doing it themselves so cheaply.

 

if it can be done cheaply/easily/at home most racers will do it. this is what i did on my old sts/dsp saturn sc2.... some time in the shop, some hacking, some swearing, and we're done.

now for the masses - if it sez sp00n or m00gen or jUn on it... people will buy it. Even more if its shiny (ooooh...). This also involves a minimum of 'effort' on their part. DC Sports or whomever builds the part, polishes it and sells it ready to install, therefore no guesswork or hacking and its a 15 minute install rather than a several hour dissasemble, reconfigure, and reinstall.

Just a different perspective on all of it....

-Ryan

p.s. oh yeah, the reason i did this on my car - the stock saturn shifter is a cable operating unit and its sloppy - its easy to miss the 3-2 downshift. It did not help me shift faster but i got a much more positive engagement and it was more precise - downside - shifting effort moderately increased, shifter looked like a miata shifter (really short). I have driven/autocrossed a 350+ hp eclipse gsx with a short shifter installed and i hate it - the effort is way too high and its not smooth at all. Some cars actually do best w/ stock units...


[Modified by Type-RJ, 11:59 AM 1/8/2002]

 

I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but a big issue with short throw shifter setups I've seen is that the **** is lower in the car - that means it's farther from the steering wheel. That's a bad thing. Look at where real racers put their ***** - as close to the wheel as reasonably possible. I've watched students of mine (after I've broken them of leaving their hand on the **** for the whole lap) fish around for the **** and it scared me.

Scott, who doesn't care how certain SVWC BMW drivers interact with their *****......

 

thanks for all the insights, and even the lecture Drew... It is appreciated.
I have already cut down the stock shifter and use a Momo short ****. That, combined with polyurethane bushings for the linkage has taken 99% of whatever little slop there was in the shifter to begin with, and has given a (moderately) shorter travel distance.
I like the feel of the shifter as it is now, but I was considering an actual short throw unit due to its relatively low cost and to the fact (as pointed out by Scott) that I would like the **** a bit closer to the wheel (the shifters I have seen appear to retain the stock **** height, unlike my hacked-up version). I'm pretty short to begin with (therefore relatively short arms) so the shifter is *just* within reach now, I am afraid that once I put the bar and harnesses in the car my pinned shoulders may not let me reach the shifter - and therefore make me look for a new comfortable driving position.
I was mainly concerned for the longevity of my 100k miles gear box, mainly. I wasn't sure whether the high incidence of failed boxes in conjunction with the short throw shifter was due to the modification itself, or was indicative of the type of driver that performed the modification... I get the feeling that it seems to be linked to the driver rather than the hardware. Ya'll concur?

EDIT: clarifying a confusing statement... what can I say, I'm a confused person right now (wife in the last month of pregnancy, two-year old running around the house - it's madness I tell you!)


[Modified by SJR, 2:43 PM 1/8/2002]

 

i would have to say its a driver thing. i've seen many 'ricers' drive and they love to abuse the chit outta their cars. Running around with the engines at 8,000 rpm all the time, grinding gears, spinning tires, etc, etc..... when one tracks or races a car it will incur some abuse, of course. but if you drive it like a normal individual on the street then its a pretty moot point.

-Ryan

 

Thanks for clearing that up for me, as well as others. Like I said, I have small amounts of knowledge with transmissions (possibly the least understood part of a car?) aside from the fact that there are input and output shafts. I thought about it some more, later on in the day, and realized that my observations are no basis for a good answer for SJR.

I've forever stayed away from them (despite them being relatively cheap), but I may now reconsider...

I still don't like the way the **** is lowered so much into the shift boot, so I may have to check other cars like mine so equipped to decide if the reach is worth it.

Crawling back into my hole,
Mike

PS-does anyone know of any good online resources on manual transmission function out there? (Basic principles would be fine.)

 

1- I don't think that they lower the **** much - but again, I may be wrong. I know I did lower it when I chopped mine though.
2- http://www.howstuffworks.com/transmission.htm

hth.

 

Excuse my extreme ignorance but to decrease the throw don't you want to shorten the shift linkage at the transmission? To shorten the shifter all you are doing is shortening the travel of you hand forward and back, left and right by lowering it toward the transmission tunnel. If you lengthen the linkage (however the gear shifter shaft attaches to the tranny) wouldn't the shifter travel less distance and the shift **** would stay the same length?

Apologies if I have totally missed the boat.

 

not sure if you have read Cobra's dissertation on the subject... In case there is confusion:
1- a real short shifter changes the pivot point and therefore shortens the throw - basically an identical distance traveled by the hand will equal a greater distance traveled by the shift linkage. I believe that the short shifter usually locate the **** at the same height as the stock shifter.
2- I cut my stock shifter to increase the feel (it's stiffer now) and shorten the distance my hand travels. What can I say, it was a free hack and I liked the results.

so basically what you said was correct, and what Cobra was saying as well in an above post. I think there was some miscommunication somewhere...
hth

 

You better double and then triple check that before blowing $60. The shifter I had was much lower. Enough that I tossed the thing in the garbage after 3 months. I also had a tendency to grind the 1-2 shift with the short shifter which went away when the stock piece was reinstalled. I have seen this occur with other drivers with various shifters. If the shifter is sloppy, add some polyurethane bushings and leave it at that.

Also, check the legality of a shortshifter. I can't remember if they are legal in ITx or xSP.

 

That is the "ideal" way to do it. There is more to that than just the linkage however. You need to alter the shift forks as well. We are now talking about "Close-Ratio" transmissions. A Honda does not have one of these so the linkage needs to stay its length. The only viable alternative is to increase the amount of work your shifting movement produces. You are 100% correct - but your hand moves less. That is the goal. You move the linkage more distance with less motion from your hand. The mechanical motion of the tranny doesn't need to be shortenned because the shifter can move greater distances with less input.
In theory yes but see my first comment.

Lengthening the shifter handle on a short throw shifter just lessens the effect of the unit. You are adding more travel back into the equation.

 

I know that Integras just aren't very happy about shifting 1-2 very quickly without grinding, and while this isn't a concern on a roadcourse, might the shorter throw shifter which would in effect be moving the shift mechanism faster cause a similar problem in other gears? Just thought I'd ask.

 

For reducing vagueness, you can get polyurethane bushings for the shift linkages, which make a surprisingly large difference.

I put a (crappy) short shifter and PU shifter bushings in my GS-R, and it moved the handle down, picked up more exhaust heat (bottom end closer to exhaust, billet aluminum shifter, solid aluminum ****), rattled like crazy on the highway (install problem I never fixed), and didn't really help shifts that much. If I still had the car, I would have put the stock shifter (with the PU bushings) back in a long time ago.

On the other hand, if you've got a civic DX or a Neon or a 2.5RS or some other car with a mushy long-throw shifter, then you've got a lot to gain from putting in a short-throw shifter. And in fact, one option might to be to get an OEM GS-R shifter from someone else who's done a shortie.

-Mike

 

http://www.shortshifter.com or http://www.uucmotorwerks.com Go to Product Catalog and browse the BMW/Audi pages: explanations, comparisons of different kits/methods, etc.

Gary