Lemme start by mentioning that I've been on HT for a little over a year now. I started with a near-stock '97 RS and researched both here and on other sites (C-Speed, Temple of Vtec, etc) on good paths for replacing my 100k mi LS setup. In September '03 I opted for the potentially-powerful, but also slightly controversial LsVtec setup. I collected parts and eventually had my motor built with the following parts:

-'93 B18A1 block, ITR pistons, stock LS rods, ARP rod bolts
-'00 B16A2 head, stock cams, ARP head bolts
-B16 oil & water pumps, new OEM timing belt, seals

I had built what I thought would be a reasonably reliable setup to make decent power (over my LS at least). The motor ran great all the way up to 8000rpm, though it could have used proper tuning (VAFC, FPR, ect). After about 15k miles, it started blowing white smoke and losing oil. Keep in mind that this was my daily-driven car and sole source of transportation. Finally at approx 25k miles, it decided to spin a rod bearing.

I had to put in about 1qt of Mobil1 sythetic oil every week-and-a-half or so to keep it healthy. I knew the intake cam seal (timing belt side) was leaking, but oil must have been being burned or lost somewhere else. Anyhow, it literally killed my New Year's Eve plans, stranding myself and two friends in the San Fernando Valley on the way to San Diego.

The total cost of the motor, which included a new clutch, B16 tranny, and new piston rings ended up at just right around $3400.

The point of this post is not to bitch and moan about the money I've spent and lost. What I do want to come out of this post is for people considering an LsVtec swap to see a realistic representation of what they are getting into.

Truths about LsVtec:
1. You will not pass CA SMOG
2. You will not easily find a mechanic to guarantee any work on your motor (as it is not a factory-built motor)
3. You will have a much more worry-free time with a stock motor
4. You can make as much if not more power mildly modifying a stock GSR motor
5. If highly modified, they can produce great power numbers
...and finally
6. I do not recommend LsVtec as a daily-driven powerplant

This is what I've learned from my own experience and what I've read from many others. If I could take back the money and do it differently, I would. It was not worth the money I've dumped into it, plain and simple. I would have sold my LS motor and bought a GSR motor.

If you do plan on doing an LsVtec swap as a low-budget slap-a-head-on-a-block setup, have at it. Just don't ever think you're going to have the same reliability as those factory built Hondas.

 

Damn... it died in 25k miles ? Who put it together ? A blind man ?

Not to rain on your parade here... but if you put together a motor and it only ran for 25k miles... LSVT or not... you must have done something wrong or the engine builder must have ripped you off, done bad tolerances, wrong bearings, a bad hone job or something to that effect.

While I agree, LSVT is not the most reliable way to go... there are a lot of things that affect a build and I don't think your unfortunate results represent a properly done LSVT build.

 

When throwing a b16 head on a b18a, do you need the vtec water pump or is the LS water pump ok to use?

 

just because you put the head on it ....are you supposed to be reving it past the ls redline???? i wouldnt think that would change so much it would allow you to rev way beyond the 6,500 ls redline

 

Good post bro

People put the word out that LS/VTEC is so hott and the best thing to do money wise if you dont really want to spend a lot. Wrong.. its a pain in the ***, aslong as your going to drop a lot of money for a full build. then your fine. If your just going to run stock manifold.. bottom or even top, then I wouldnt reccomend it. I havent had any oil problems, but the wiring, oil feed lines.. its a pain in the ***. Just get GSR and some bolt ons and youll be safe!

 

my 87 ls redline is 7k and fuel cut off is 7.3k
Stock exept intake exhaust

Is your redline really 6.5k dont matter between 6.5 and 7 i was just wondering why the older models ( my 87ls ) has a higher redline

 

Thanks for the info. I'm trying to explain to a friend why he shouldn't go ls/vtec either...and on his daily driver too.

It seem slike all the money you spent on your setup, you could have bought a gsr swap.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mulldog &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Good post bro

People put the word out that LS/VTEC is so hott and the best thing to do money wise if you dont really want to spend a lot. Wrong.. its a pain in the ***, aslong as your going to drop a lot of money for a full build. then your fine. If your just going to run stock manifold.. bottom or even top, then I wouldnt reccomend it. I havent had any oil problems, but the wiring, oil feed lines.. its a pain in the ***. Just get GSR and some bolt ons and youll be safe! </TD></TR></TABLE>

Sorry, but the 'pains in the butt' you listed, like the feed lines and wiring... man that stuff is cake and is not the major issues on LSVT's. 'Stock manifold' on LSVT is a problem too ?

If you build one right... you won't spend as much as you're making it out to be.... but you can't cheap it out either... that topic has been covered on HT and other sites 9,383,875 times....

 

I have had my lsvtec running for over 4 years now and not one problem.

It sounds like whoever built the motor, missed a few things.

Also it is very important to use the right parts. OEM GS-R oil, water pumps, OEM GS-R timinng belt, along with a crank girdle, windage tray, oil pump pick up etc....

If you miss these details it's a recipe for problems down the road.

Sad to hear you had to go through all of that cash and come out with nothing.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by X2BOARD &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Damn... it died in 25k miles ? Who put it together ? A blind man ?

Not to rain on your parade here... but if you put together a motor and it only ran for 25k miles... LSVT or not... you must have done something wrong or the engine builder must have ripped you off, done bad tolerances, wrong bearings, a bad hone job or something to that effect.

While I agree, LSVT is not the most reliable way to go... there are a lot of things that affect a build and I don't think your unfortunate results represent a properly done LSVT build.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Haha, no blind man here. The guys who put it together were from MasterTech in Garden Grove. The entire point of the thread was to show how building a motor (and generally messing with a non-stock one) is a full-commitment deal.

To anyone who wants to make power but not have to worry about their motor on a day to day basis...just stick with a factory built motor. Thanks for all the comments guys.

Oh yeah, and my New Year's Resolution: Never heavily modify my daily driver.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Quiks66 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Haha, no blind man here. The guys who put it together were from MasterTech in Garden Grove. The entire point of the thread was to show how building a motor (and generally messing with a non-stock one) is a full-commitment deal.

To anyone who wants to make power but not have to worry about their motor on a day to day basis...just stick with a factory built motor. Thanks for all the comments guys.

Oh yeah, and my New Year's Resolution: Never heavily modify my daily driver.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree.... messing with 'non-stock' requires commitment. My past 2 builds have run over 4 months each.... luckily I had the luxury of an extra car. But once it's done RIGHT (and completely), it should run right.

Even being a former LSVT'er... I'd still rather eat the few meager CC's and run a stock vtec block... it's vastly superior to the non vtec block either way. I run a full gsr block now.... just didn't want people to immediately get a negative out look on it... the lsvt does work when done properly.

 

Well now it's pretty much official. I'm going back to Non-Vtec status, buying a '97 LS longblock on Wednesday. It's only $1k, going to keep using my B16 tranny. My motor's going up for sale within the next week or so (1 spun rod bearing and 1 spun main bearing), so keep a look out. I'll also be looking for a few parts to complete my conversion back to Non-Vtec. It's been fun, but I'm tapping out for the most part. 'Tis a sad day.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Quiks66 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Lemme start by mentioning that I've been on HT for a little over a year now. I started with a near-stock '97 RS and researched both here and on other sites (C-Speed, Temple of Vtec, etc) on good paths for replacing my 100k mi LS setup. In September '03 I opted for the potentially-powerful, but also slightly controversial LsVtec setup. I collected parts and eventually had my motor built with the following parts:

-'93 B18A1 block, ITR pistons, stock LS rods, ARP rod bolts
-'00 B16A2 head, stock cams, ARP head bolts
-B16 oil & water pumps, new OEM timing belt, seals
I had built what I thought would be a reasonably reliable setup to make decent power (over my LS at least). The motor ran great all the way up to 8000rpm, though it could have used proper tuning (VAFC, FPR, ect). After about 15k miles, it started blowing white smoke and losing oil. Keep in mind that this was my daily-driven car and sole source of transportation. Finally at approx 25k miles, it decided to spin a rod bearing.

I had to put in about 1qt of Mobil1 sythetic oil every week-and-a-half or so to keep it healthy. I knew the intake cam seal (timing belt side) was leaking, but oil must have been being burned or lost somewhere else. Anyhow, it literally killed my New Year's Eve plans, stranding myself and two friends in the San Fernando Valley on the way to San Diego.

The total cost of the motor, which included a new clutch, B16 tranny, and new piston rings ended up at just right around $3400.

The point of this post is not to bitch and moan about the money I've spent and lost. What I do want to come out of this post is for people considering an LsVtec swap to see a realistic representation of what they are getting into.

Truths about LsVtec:
1. You will not pass CA SMOG
2. You will not easily find a mechanic to guarantee any work on your motor (as it is not a factory-built motor)
3. You will have a much more worry-free time with a stock motor
4. You can make as much if not more power mildly modifying a stock GSR motor
5. If highly modified, they can produce great power numbers
...and finally
6. I do not recommend LsVtec as a daily-driven powerplant

This is what I've learned from my own experience and what I've read from many others. If I could take back the money and do it differently, I would. It was not worth the money I've dumped into it, plain and simple. I would have sold my LS motor and bought a GSR motor.

If you do plan on doing an LsVtec swap as a low-budget slap-a-head-on-a-block setup, have at it. Just don't ever think you're going to have the same reliability as those factory built Hondas. </TD></TR></TABLE>

so what kind of bearings did u use???????????????????? i hope you didnt use the stock ones

 

wow. listen to the guy ! i had an almost identical ls/vtec nightmare

99 JDM b20b block ( literally new )
GE ls/vtec kit
ARP rods/bolts
00 GSR VTEC head

the car was setup professionally , by a big time shop , they gave me my car back , told me vtec was working but very weak , and they assured me that this motor was 100% reliable and told me to break it in for 1000 miles or more , and to not take it over 4,000 rpms

well the shop did NOT tell me anything about modifying my fuel system , and exactly 2 weeks later the motor was knocking and spun a bearing. so i go back to the shop , and they tell me my car was running lean when they gave it too me ... im like ok ... ( called another shop ) then asked the shop that fucked up my car " what was my air fuel ratio at" thier tech guy was like ... ohh 19: 1 man that motor was really lean , we told you not to rev it up at all , looks like its all your fault ...

i hate myself for letting them **** me over , they took my car out of thier shop and told me go ahead and try to sue them , they would win , and told me never to come back. by the way we spent over $ 5000 at that shop.

 

exactly. ive been doing some additional research on team-integra , and i was quite impressed to learn the actual diffrences in the BLOCK.

the GSR block just seems FAR superior to any other block , it has many race inspired features to ALLOW an engine to rev to 8k + , its stronger , more reinforced , it has OIL squirters to cool the pistons , a block girdle , etc ..

after my b20/vtec nightmare , i am quite glad i have a full GSR setup now

 

reving up to 8k rpm + stock ls rods = bad idea...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vart &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">reving up to 8k rpm + stock ls rods = bad idea...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks, kid. Up top for some more constructive criticism or comments.

 

yea thats what i asked earlier ....i was pretty sure just by going ls/vtec doesnt mean you can rev to 8 k without consequences...its still an ls ...that may be the reason your build went up ****'s creek so early...

 

ls/vtec can be very reliable if u build tha engine right and if u dont take it past its limits, like reving it to 8k on stock internals. It really depends on ur engine building and also how hard u are on ur motor.

 

stock ITR motor all the way!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Quiks66 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Thanks, kid. Up top for some more constructive criticism or comments.</TD></TR></TABLE>


HAHAHA...

Yeah guys... unless you throw the $$ at it... it won't be built right. I feel for you guys that have damaged engines from shitty builders or people who don't know enough about it to do it properly. But live and learn... everyone does.

For an upside... the $$ you'd spend on an LSVT, you could prolly just buy a used turbo kit and hondata and have much more power....

 

wrong wrong wrong, those problems you listed were installation error, or lack of tuning. Sorry. . .

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Quiks66 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

To anyone who wants to make power but not have to worry about their motor on a day to day basis...just stick with a factory built motor. Thanks for all the comments guys.

</TD></TR></TABLE>
So your suggesting we all sell our honda's and buy 04 cobra's and sl65amg benzs' right?

 

i just finished my lsvtec.. runs like a champ. Its geting tuned this week (vafc2)... honestly, an ls vtec setup is not that much different then changing a head gasket. all your doing is putting a different head back onto the head gasket. make sure it gets oil, and make sure the stock oil hole is tapped and plugged (took all of 25 seconds) golden eagle kit is amazing.. anyone that does an ls vtec without this is retarded. USE THE RIGHT PATTERN WHEN TORQUING THE HEAD AND USE THE RIGHT TORQUE SETINGS... mine runs strong.. but im also not gonna go reving to 8 untill i build my bottom end.

ls vtec's kick ***. im sorry you had a bad experience but its not the motors fault. its the builder. and you said yourself you didnt have the propper tuning. you spinning a rod bearing was not because it was ls/vtec, it was because it wasnt built or tuned propperly. bottom line. a simple fpr and vafc has your car running strong and keeping her happy. no reason not to do it i just dont understand why someone would go 25, even 15k miles iwthout getting the motor tuned... thats just like doing half a job

my car keeps oil like a stock motor. no leaks.

and as you say it wont be as reliable as a stock honda motor already assembled. DUH. but done correctly, it should be just as reliable. and i know mine is.

 

what the point of your expensive ls/vtec build when you cant even take the car into vtec much. my car never saw over 6000 rpm and still spun a bearing. and it seems pointless you say you have ls/vtec now , but cant rev it up , and have to tear yout motor down again just to build it back up? ... do it right the first time