Better late then never I guess ...

http://www.SouthEastHondaChallenge.com

* Preliminary 2005 schedule
* Roebling results
* Track records
* 04 Champions

 

Zsolt, is the Lowes date confirmed??? I thought that was up in the air. Is this concrete?

 

This I do not know, as that is an ECHC weekend.

Why, is old pink, purple, and green gonna make an appearance??

 

Lowes is supposedly confirmed but "all dates are subject to change" so take it as you will.

 

The schedule looks great! Thanks.

 

Looks like there won't be any racing at Barber this year unless you're on two wheels or in Grand Am.
I was hoping maybe NASA SE would jump on the date that SCCA gave back.

Very unfortunate.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Very unfortunate.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Indeed ...

NASA-SE just doesn't have the turn out right now to not completely loose their a$$ on a Barber weekend.

However, according to Sammy PBOC is running 2 races there this year; one in Feb. Bad news is they don't recognize NASA or SCCA lic AFAICT.

Let's hope NASA-SE can pull off a weekend in 06.

SPiFF, likes Barber, a lot!

 

Thanks spiff, any word on some contingency sponsers? I would love to run the SE schedule, but if it means no chance at any $$$ I might have to go to a few more EC events instead.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SPiFF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

NASA-SE just doesn't have the turn out right now to not completely loose their a$$ on a Barber weekend.

However, according to Sammy PBOC is running 2 races there this year; one in Feb. Bad news is they don't recognize NASA or SCCA lic AFAICT.

Let's hope NASA-SE can pull off a weekend in 06.

SPiFF, likes Barber, a lot!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Absolutely. Hopefully the Barber people will come to realize that you can't charge clubs $15 to $17K per weekend for armco and landscaping damage.
If they don't, nobody will be racing there at the amatuer level and HPDEs will continue to cost $500 a weekend. What a HUGE loss, that track is amazing.

I'm not sure if SCCA will ever go back after the $17000 damage bill last July. Thats just insane.

Scott, who actually puts Barber right up there with RA and VIR.

 

details on the $17,000 bill -- see post by apexingsupra:
http://www.sccaforums.com/ubb/.../1172

 

Shoot, no Barber for SEDiv?! I really wanted to go to Babs in 2005 - argh!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by phat-S &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Shoot, no Barber for SEDiv?! </TD></TR></TABLE>

Sad but true.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by smokin rubber &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thanks spiff, any word on some contingency sponsers?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not my dept.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by phat-S &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Shoot, no Barber for SEDiv?! I really wanted to go to Babs in 2005 - argh! </TD></TR></TABLE>

Likely gone forever.
Last I heard the damage settlement had gone to the legal department in Topeka. Needless to say SCCA and Barber currently aren't on the best of terms.

I know that the track sent PCA a $22000 damage bill last year as well. Word is that they are also (naturally) now not on speaking terms.

Oh, just excellent. Quite possibly the best track east of the Missisippi, its 4 hours from my house, and I may never get to race there again. [sarcasm] Maybe I'll score that GA Cup ride. [/sarcasm]

Scott, who didn't see $5000 worth of damage that weekend, much less $17K.

 

Ok, so these astronomical damage bills, are these insurance type bills that you need to put down before the weekend and you get it what is left of it back after the damage is repaired and the weekend is over? Or it's a flat out fee, or what?

edit: read part of the link that was posted above. Wow!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Scott, who didn't see $5000 worth of damage that weekend, much less $17K.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ahh, one of the offending cars!!!! Its this guy! Its this guy! His fault. His fault I'll never get to drive Babs! Bassard!!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hracer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok, so these astronomical damage bills, are these insurance type bills that you need to put down before the weekend and you get it what is left of it back after the damage is repaired and the weekend is over? Or it's a flat out fee, or what?</TD></TR></TABLE>

From my understanding, and maybe Barry can come on and explain it better, AFTER the event the track sent the Alabama Region a repair bill for $17000. This was over and beyond the track rental fees.
Naturally, the region couldn't remotely afford that (they are small and only started their club racing program in 2003 when Barber opened), so they had to forward the issue to Topeka. Now, nobody is very friendly with each other.

Very sad. If you've been to that track you understand the loss. I'd rather go there once than Roebling, Summit or CMP 10 times.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by phat-S &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Ahh, one of the offending cars!!!! Its this guy! Its this guy! His fault. His fault I'll never get to drive Babs! Bassard!!!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Wasn't me!!!
I didn't even tear up any grass. Honest!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">From my understanding, and maybe Barry can come on and explain it better, AFTER the event the track sent the Alabama Region a repair bill for $17000. This was over and beyond the track rental fees.
Naturally, the region couldn't remotely afford that (they are small and only started their club racing program in 2003 when Barber opened), so they had to forward the issue to Topeka. Now, nobody is very friendly with each other.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, that's also what I understood from reading Barry's post in that linked thread. And they even "fix" the damage without notifying you of it in the first place! Unbelievable...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Very sad. If you've been to that track you understand the loss. I'd rather go there once than Roebling, Summit or CMP 10 times.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I hear you. It's an awesome track and I much prefer it over the others I've been on except for VIR and road atlanta. That cool (first place ITA makes it that much cooler ) BMP Inaugural event trophy the Alabama region gave out at the '03 weekend constantly reminds me of this track. I was really looking forward to running Barber again in '05.

 

I guess since everyone is looking at where to run at 2005 this seems to be a topic that has arisen in the last week. It is unfortunate that the Alabama Region SCCA is not going to race at Barber in 2005 but it is for a good reason. From the race chairs I have talked to in SEDIV none of them would race there under the same or similar circumstances. It is BMP's track and they can establish whatever policy they want. The current one is not in keeping with other track's policies. Sure if you wad something up real bad you pay for it. But when you get a bill for scratching the galvinized finish on a guardrail well that should be "incidental contact" that is part of the rental. Maybe things will change. Maybe they will not. Below is what I have posted on several forums about it since so many questions have surfaced:

I thought it might be advisable to clear up a few things about the Alabama Region SCCA and the Barber track.

1. The Alabama Region is not going to be club racing at Barber in 2005. That is true. After repeated problems in dealing with "management" at either BMP or BET and ultimately after being handed a track "damage" bill for $17,000 after a NORMAL race weekend of only incidental contact with tire walls and guardrail, the region's board decdided it can no longer justify continuing racing at the facility under the current management philosophy present at the facility.

2. The Alabama Region was given a $40,000 track damage bill by BMP. False. We were billed $17,000 for track damage post race. When you add that to the $10,000 a day rental then yes, it about totaled $40,000 for the region to use that facility for one weekend. And that my friends is too much money. The bill was pretty much the straw that broke the camel's back for us.

At our 2003 inaugural event, the Alabama region got no track damage bill and yes there was contact with guardrail, tire walls, and spills occurred in the paddock. At the end of the July 2004 event on Sunday when the track went cold, I as assist. race chair, was in race control with BMP's track manager. I asked track management if I needed to go look at anything on the track, inspect it, take photos, meet over any track damage issues and was told in response that "no everything looks good, there is nothing but minor damage, and there is nothing to worry about". I was advised that the track had already been inspected by track management.

About a week or a little longer after the event lo and behold we get a bill from BMP through BET saying we tore up the track and the paddock to the tune of $17,000!! It was claimed that we had damaged over 520 linear feet of guardrail and damaged the paddock with fuel spills to the tune of $5,800. So we asked to look at the damage and well they had already done the guardrail without giving us an opportunity to look at the claimed guardrail damage. So we went out and counted guardrail replaced and they could not account for all the guardrail they said was damaged. The pavement bill was too high too even assuming what they said was damaged during our race weekend was in fact on our weekend. It turns out that they claimed there was zero damage to the track or the paddock on Friday when BET had the test n tune and they were around 130 competitors running their event.

In any event we disputed the damage bill and submitted it to SCCA insurance. The bill got adjusted somewhat and club racing's insurance paid it. Our region was not going to eat such a large damage bill so reluctantly we turned it over to insurance.

In researching this we talked to several race directors of SCCA that have putting on club races for many decades. We also discussed this with SCCA Risk Managment as to what the "industry norm" was as to incidental contact with tire walls, and guardrails as well as fuel spills in the paddock. We contacted several major tracks in the country to learn their policies on "incidental contact" with tire walls and guardrail as well as paddock spills. What it boils down to is that Sebring, Daytona, Road Atlanta, VIR, Roebling, Thunderhill, Laguna Seca, Infineon Raceway, and Moroso do not charge extra damage for incidental contact with tire walls and guardrail. That is all part of the rental price. If you totally wad up a guardrail then that is different. Nor do those facilities charge for paddock damage due to fuel spills from our research. BMP has chosen to do both of those things which as we were advised is outside of the industry norm.

If BMP wants to assess incidental damage to drivers or organizations well it is their track and they can do so if they want. The question is who wants to race there under such circumstances. At the present the Alabama Region SCCA does not. Neither does PCA club racing ( at least from what I have been told and their 20K damage bill). From looking at some organization's 2005 calendar that ran there in 2004, it would appear that others are not coming back there in 2005 either. I am sure others will want to go there but others will say "no". There will probably be more DEs there in that there are usually less issues with "offs" and track damage than in wheel to wheel racing.

The Alabama Region has not really discussed this "publicly" in various forums until now but due to the comments and cited info in this thread I thought it best to at least state the Alabama Region's perspective on this. I agree that BMP is a beautiful facility and a great track but to those who are responsible for putting together this region's club races it is just not worth the hassle. Sorry guys.

Barry H.
Ala. Region Regional Exec.


Modified by apexinghonda at 7:12 AM 12/28/2004

 

It looks like someone wants to recoup the cost of building that facility a little quicker than projected.
Of course, I wouldn't want to be in Barber's shoes. He's getting flak from environmentalists and local legislature from what I have heard, and the facility cost an arm and a leg to build.
That said, what do you think this guys house looks like? How bad did he punish his kids for writing on the walls with crayons?

 

March 12-20 : Road Atlanta

Looked at the website and it has the above listed for RA. So this is going to be a 3 weekend event?