In xjohnx's thread about his new Spoon N1, a disagreement came up about the Spoon N1 and whether or not it was worth the money. The basic argument was, why buy a Spoon N1 axle-back for close to $500, when you can buy a decent cat-back, such as the Apex'i N1, for approximately the same amount.

So here is my question - is there any merit to this argument? Is the Spoon N1 (the new 63mm one) axle-back really on a par with the cat-backs of other manufacturers, namely Apex'i? Or does one have to buy an aftermarket B-pipe to fully realize the potential of the Spoon piece? And if someone does get the N1 with a 2.5" B-pipe, is it worth the extra $$ over the Apexi'i or something like it?

 

Depending on the mods and the extent that the car is going to be modded will more than likely determine if the money is worth it. Why get a 1300 header if your only going I/H/E? If the Spoon does out perform the Apexi in all aspects then one should consider how much they want to spend. Everyone has a different opinion. There is no such thing as " THE ULTIMATE EXHAUST" or other product.

 

assume this is a relatively stock R that's going to stay that way - ie. no cams or FI or N2O

 

If I were in that situation, then I would get the Apexi N1. Since I wouldn't be trying to squeeze every little hp out of my car.

 

I think the key is, you need an exhaust system that suits your needs; ie. mods. When debating an axle-back + OE B-pipe vs cat-back system, the obvious thing should be is the B-pipe a limiter for your set-up.

Dave @ SMS Products has done extensive measurements to the OE cat-back. The B-pipe has two restrictions in it; the cat-connection point and the axle-back connection point. Dave can probably provide exact measures at these points. The other restriction is the reduction of the entire axle-back to 2".

The Spoon axle-back would eliminate the major reduction of the OE axle-back and significantly reduce the weight. All other restrictions would be there.

The N1 cat-back system would eliminate the reduction at the axle-back as well, but would retain the cat-connection reduction.
*I'm not sure about the APEXi system, but the resonator used in the Tanabe system has many metal hairs that extend into the flow path.

Now, here is the dyno plot from the Great Header TEst for the SMSP 2.5" exhaust system + test-pipe over the OE cat-back + cat. As you can see, even the MOST free-flowing system only performs marginally better on an relatively tame set-up.



My point here is, I don't think the APEXi N1 cat-back or Spoon N1 axle-back are going to be dramatically different than one another on a mildly modified car. Pick which one YOU want and spend YOUR money for it. As long as your happy, what else matters!

 

Apexi N1 fits like crap
Spoon fits perfect

Also Im not a fan of Big exhaust tips like the Apexi has, the Spoon has a subtle 2.5" tip and sits under the bumper unlike others that hang down and are very noticeable

 

well put..i agree that apexi comes more complete and you get a benefit of the whole catback for the same amount.. but that thing looks like a rocket launcher planted under the bumper.. and when cop is behind you it shines into his eyes like crazy while YELLING : Pull me over! this is just my opinion.. flame away..

 

I would say if you like the small tip look, then get the Spoon N1, but if you like the bigger tip look, then get the Apex'i N1. I think the preformance differences between the two is so small that you won't even notice the different!!

 

Yeah Mike I do see the point about the fitment, and the stealth...although my stealth goes out the window with my yellow paint and wing...hmmm. I really like the look of the Spoon, Im not big into fart cans.

 

I really like the Spoon N1 and will probably end up getting one. My question, how exactly does it fit?

Like this:


or, like this:


Mike, can you answer this?

 

i think the reason mine looks so low is b/c i put it on at like 11ish at night, and was in a rush to put it on, i put the hangers in the bottom holes, i think there are some middle holes slightly higher up, i'll have to take a look and see next time i have it up on the lift.

 

That would be cool - let us know if you were able to raise it up and tuck it under the bumber a bit more...

 

Just get shorter muffler hangers (the rubber things) if you want to tuck it up a little. Problem solved.

And on the stock ITR hangers, there is no middle hole, unless the spoons come with different ones.


[Modified by Todd00, 7:27 PM 1/6/2002]

 

too close sucks. i melted the **** out of my bumber. stealth bumber though.

 

Does anybody use the Spoon N1 on a daily driver?

 

WHAT WHAT DID YOU SAY? WHAT? hehe

Yes

 

Bryan and John both do, as well as Shane on his S2K, and Im about to...so it can be done. But like I said...you DONT need a new N1 exhaust.

 

Anyone actually have the (new style) Spoon N1 in stock? I've already modded my oem B-pipe and I want a different axle-back than what I have.

 

None in stock but I may be doing a special on them for the end of the month

 

in my opinion putting JUST a muffler spoon, or not on a car, is the same. might as well go down to your local rice shop, and get a DTM tip muffler, youll get that cool race car sound! ON the ITR I know its a LITTLE different, because of the less restrictive exhaust, but Id rather have a full apex'i N1 over Spoon muffler anyday. I guess more power is more important to me.

 

so you would rather have a product that was made just for high demand?

i'm not saying that apex-i doesn't have good quality products, but remember that they do not put as much reserch into stuff as spoon does, rather trying to meet high demands that the consumer wants by just changing little parts of their products so that they are able to use them for other cars besides honda.

spoon specialize in honda only products so you know their items have lots of research and development put into, with spoon your spending your money on a product that was extensively researched and tested so that it can bring out as much horsepower as possible out of honda vehicles.


[Modified by xlr8si, 6:26 AM 1/7/2002]

 

I know, but how I dont care how much research you do, A muffler wont add as much horsepower as a high quality cat-back for a simmilar price. I dont care if its spoon, mugen, or NASA.

 

does the spoon n1 work with the carsound cat? you don't HAVE to get a test pipe right?

 

right...no testpipe although you can use one if you like.

 

The only reason to get Carsound cat is if you get a JDM type header or SMSP/Hitech header. Test Pipe is race only

-Alan