Since the EP3 has the ever so lovely strut design whats the best way to acheive the highest amount of negative camber in the front? EP3 has to be the worst autox car of all time

 

This has been a question that's been hashed by a few of us for a while. With the crash bolts, folks have been able to get about -1.5 degrees or less. Those with upper mount camber plates on their coilovers seem to be able to get to about 2-2.5 degrees before running out of adjustment on their tie rod and toe-in when they try to dial in any more camber. There have been a few folks who's tried to look into shortening the tie rod or getting shorter tie rods but I don't know if there's a definitive solution to that yet. Maybe a combination of camber plates and crash bolts? GRM got about the same amount (-2.5) with the GC camber plates.

I have heard rumblings that the Buddy Club Racing Spec damper design repositions the steering arm mount so much that you're able to dial in LOTS of negative camber without toe-in, but there aren't too many folks out there who own this kit and none of them (that I know of) have tried to figure out how much the max level of camber is.

So bottom line - it's tough to get more than -2.5 or so without toe-in unless your suspension kit repositions the steering arm or you come up with another innovative solution. You may want to track down the folks with the Buddy Club kits and ask them again.

I don't know about the EP being the worst autox car of all time though. GRM was one spot out of the STS trophies at Nationals. I think they would've done even better if they had gone with a shock-body-length adjustable coilover kit and run more camber. You can deal with the mcstruts and run lots of spring in the back to rotate the car. But the biggest thing you will fight is the weight of this car and there's not all that much you can do about that.

Hope that helps.

 

wow thanks very much for the excellent follow up..One question though? It is my understanding that the buddyclub kit only inludes upper pillow mounts and no camber plates..Are you saying that the buddyclub setup relies on repostioning the steering arm as opposed to conventional camber plates? Or a combination of buddyclub and possible GC camber plates to acheive 2.5+ negative camber..Regardless of my best efforts I am stuck at .5 negative camber in the front..I love GC but they don't yet offer a camber plates for the EP3, Life sure sucks without wishbone

 

The Buddy Club RSD susp does come with upper mount camber plates. But they also repositioned the steering arm (from what I heard). Apparently, with the camber plates set on max POSITIVE, you still get about -2.0 degrees of negative camber with that kit. This is also the only setup that comes close to what the EP needs in terms of rear spring rate (16K).

Ground control DOES make an upper mount camber plate for the EP3. This mount also has a top-hat design that gives you an extra inch of suspension travel. Found here: http://www.ground-control.com/...25482

Hotchkis also makes a camber plate for the RSX, but it should fit just fine on the EP. Their polished set is on sale right now for like $300: http://www.hotchkistuning.com/...30704

There are plenty of mcstrut cars that run in STS and do just fine on a local/divisional level. Heck, a Celica took 5th at nationals this year. But if you're looking to pick a serious fight with the 89-91 Civics in that class, you picked the wrong horse. So far there seems to be nothing that is as light, has such a nice suspension design, and can use its power as efficiently as that car in STS.

 

I have heard that many companies are discontinuing there coilover kits for the EP3 and DC5 due to steering arm joints sheering off. Seems like the best thing to do with the EP3 is sell it and move on to the TSX like everyone else..

 

All kinds of problems with the DC5/RSX suspension.

1) tie rod/bumpsteer issues in the front
2) camber issues in the front
3) rear motio ratio sucks
4) rear suspension binding

As for camber, Burgh's explanation was exactly what I found when working with the EP3. I detailed my findings in a post about a year ago or so.

 

Wow, -2.0-2.5 camber? I was only able to get -1.2 with .15 toe out, before running out of toe adjustment.
If I set toe at "0" I get -1.5 *scratches coconut*
This was with Tein Flex, 2weeks ago.
How are folks getting that much camber?
I would like to know

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by eg_nezay &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wow, -2.0-2.5 camber? I was only able to get -1.2 with .15 toe out, before running out of toe adjustment.
If I set toe at "0" I get -1.5 *scratches coconut*
This was with Tein Flex, 2weeks ago.
How are folks getting that much camber?
I would like to know </TD></TR></TABLE>

Camber bolts or other types of suspension, as the flex don't seem to relocate the steering arm very well and you run into toe/camber issues.

 

I was just checking out the ground control kit, and it looks like your supposed to make all of the adjustments from the bottom of the car? Why would they design it like that? Seems like a pita to adjust. Are there any benefits to that design, as opposed to adjusting it from the top like the Hotchkis kit?

 

But isn't the TSX almost 300 pounds heavier? Is it a better autox car when it weighs so much more?

 

Mugen N1's

 

http://www.kingmotorsports.com...t=249


according to the guy at King motorsports these jdm lca's increase - camber by pushing the bottom of the wheel out..Thoughts?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Halo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">http://www.kingmotorsports.com...t=249

according to the guy at King motorsports these jdm lca's increase - camber by pushing the bottom of the wheel out..Thoughts?</TD></TR></TABLE>

You may want to check on whether these are legal if you are autoxing in STS. I can't remember the camberplate/controlarm rule for mcstrut cars versus a-arm cars, etc. It would be interesting to see how much more camber these would give you just by themselves. And also if the amount of camber would be adjustable.

Another option would be to see if changing out tie-rods is legal in STS. If so, it maybe easier to just find shorter tie rods somewhere. Alternatively, there have been a couple of posts from folks who've shown pics of certain setups that mount the tie rod end upside down (where it connects to the strut). If you're feeling really dangerous, an ex-EP3 owner said that you could custom fab the strut steering arm or modify the existing one on one of the suspension kits to relocate it. Sounds kinda scary to me.

I'm not too convinced that the TSX would be a better autox car than the EP. Better roadracing car... probably.

 

It seems to depend also how low the car is. With JICs and their camber plates, I some how managed to get something around -2.2 or -2.3 into the fronts at one point, that was maxing out the tie rod travel, problem was the car came out too low and my street wheels didn't really fit.
I believe now it is STS legal to change the LCAs on strut cars to change camber angles, but I haven't seen the 05 book yet. The way I took the rules with the tie rod end changing (using an RSX one or something) is that you can't do it because it may be taken as a suspension mounting point, which in the rules, must be original and unmodified.

Anyone who knows.... how the GC plates work? The website description is kinda crappy and the picture looks like a partial assembly. I'm looking to redo my stuff, the JICs are pissing me off. The only thing with the Hotchkis plates is they don't look like you can use the upper strut tower bar, which does seem to help to a degree. Is GCs design the same way?

 

I got -2.5 degrees using only upper camber bolts + h&r springs. You can get more by adding the lower camber bolt as well. The crash bolts shift the toe out as you go more negative - If you have a coilover setup with camber plates, you can add crash bolts to get even more neg camber w/o going toe in.

the ep3 is a better STS car, weight is everything in auto-x - esp since the ep3 can accomodate the widest width allowed in STS, 225. TSX will have more straight line oomphf, but the ep will stay ahead in the corners.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boilermaker1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It seems to depend also how low the car is. With JICs and their camber plates, I some how managed to get something around -2.2 or -2.3 into the fronts at one point, that was maxing out the tie rod travel, problem was the car came out too low and my street wheels didn't really fit.
I believe now it is STS legal to change the LCAs on strut cars to change camber angles, but I haven't seen the 05 book yet. The way I took the rules with the tie rod end changing (using an RSX one or something) is that you can't do it because it may be taken as a suspension mounting point, which in the rules, must be original and unmodified.

Anyone who knows.... how the GC plates work? The website description is kinda crappy and the picture looks like a partial assembly. I'm looking to redo my stuff, the JICs are pissing me off. The only thing with the Hotchkis plates is they don't look like you can use the upper strut tower bar, which does seem to help to a degree. Is GCs design the same way?</TD></TR></TABLE>


do you really feel like having to take your wheels off and wrench from underneath the car to adjust the camber? The GC kit doesn't seem to be very user friendly or allow for quick adjustments..I guess there is a correlation between potential sales and r&d

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Halo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


do you really feel like having to take your wheels off and wrench from underneath the car to adjust the camber? The GC kit doesn't seem to be very user friendly or allow for quick adjustments..I guess there is a correlation between potential sales and r&d </TD></TR></TABLE>

They work from underneath? Thats pretty stupid. That turns fine tuning it from a 15-30 minute thing of leaving the front jack under the car, lifting, adjusting and resetting into a 2-3 hour thing pulling the wheels on and off constantly to set it. Why bother?