I guess some of you must have caught the 3 hours of coverage on Speed. Some comments:

1- This is not clean racing - is it too much aggresion or lack of skill or both? It seems that bumping several times before passing is common among the leaders. Also, super-low percentage moves which take out another driver seem to occur alot.

2- Despite the incredible amount of contact between cars, there are very few cars that sustain heavy damage. Maybe this is the nature of F1 tracks, with their often huge runoff areas and gravel traps.

3- The coverage: way too many commercials and EVERY time they came back from a commercial, there was this Supercup commercial-type part. There's already not much time to cover 2 events per half hour, there's no need to play the promo 3-4 times per half hour.

 

The coverage is limited by Speed's time commitments. In Europe the entire race is shown or at a minimum some channels show about an hour per per race weekend.

Not sure what you mean by clean. At this level contact occurs because of the extreme closeness or racing (12 cars at Indy seperated by less than 3/4's of a second) and it's not open wheel.

Watch BTCC, DTM, ETCC (now WTCC) or JGTC and you'll see the same.

Also keep in mind that half the grid is made up of paying drivers, who are either way past their prime or never were in their prime. The fist half of the grid are alll the young hotshoes (and some old hotshoes) who are climbing the ladder. Many are racers who got as far as the could in open wheel (F3 or F3000) and this is the next step in their motorsports career.

Henzler came over two the US and ran two SWC races in a Porsche and won both races against the regulars (Galati, Archer, Pobst ...) on a track he had never driven. These guys car drive.

The cars are GT3 Cup cars and are basically street shells that are seam welded and reinforced. There is no exotic material on them like carbon fiber or such so the cars hold up well to being hit.

I think it's exciting racing, but as you pointed out 20 minutes to cover two races is nothing more than a highlight clip.

Cheers,

Jon

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Civic44 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This is not clean racing - is it too much aggresion or lack of skill or both?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I think it's because neither party wants to give an inch due to the fact that all cars are relatively equal, although some incidents are cause by clearly stupid mistakes. Unfortunately this is always the end result of competition and I've yet to see any form of racing where this does not apply. Just imagine how our SM would be if they had nearly the same amount of coverage, including some international coverage.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Civic44 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The coverage: way too many commercials and EVERY time they came back from a commercial, there was this Supercup commercial-type part. There's already not much time to cover 2 events per half hour, there's no need to play the promo 3-4 times per half hour. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Exactly. Those supercup promo bits at the beginning of segment are so unnecessary it's not even funny.

Can't wait to see Wolf Henzler again next year in WC GT!

 

Jon and Alex pretty much covered it. The Speed broadcast blows (as usual).

BTW, the 997 GT3 Cup car looks nice. Sequential box and carbon ceramic brakes. Yum.

 

1- This is not clean racing - is it too much aggresion or lack of skill or both? It seems that bumping several times before passing is common among the leaders. Also, super-low percentage moves which take out another driver seem to occur alot.

After thinking about this a few minutes and reading the posts I came up with two reasons for all the contact. This was a highlight package for the most part, thus all the "highlights" of bent metal. It was also on Nascar TV, nuff said. These guys think all that contact is what racing is about. Unfortunately it is what sells in our society

 

A friend of mine who loves Nascar, agreed with me that its unfortunate that a lot of the road racing is not covered very well. It’s hard to market races where no Americans are in the series (Patrick Long was in one or two races). I think its great racing and has potential but not the right market or audience in states. If it was some circle tracking from 10 years ago then you could see the entire race but not here. Let’s just pray that they will still show the full races at midnight of the V8 Supercars, that’s great racing.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by trigun7469 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">circle tracking from 10 years ago then you could see the entire race but not here. Let’s just pray that they will still show the full races at midnight of the V8 Supercars, that’s great racing.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Agreed...Australian V8 is some of the best racing on Speed.

Speed is showing it again this year, but they changed the time. It is now on at 12:00 noon and/or 1:00 in the afternoon on Thursdays. The series started on Dec 2, so there isn't much left of the season.

http://www.speedtv.com/programs/85/

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GreenFlag &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Agreed...Australian V8 is some of the best racing on Speed.</TD></TR></TABLE>

A friend and I were talking about that series last night. Is it just me, or is that about the only televised racing you've seen that regularly involves cars wrong-side up? So much so that the announcers don't seem that surprised

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Civic44 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
1- This is not clean racing - is it too much aggresion or lack of skill or both? It seems that bumping several times before passing is common among the leaders. Also, super-low percentage moves which take out another driver seem to occur alot.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Imagine a Spec Miata 20 min highlight video.

Jon K
http://www.seat-time.com

 

I go to F1 races just to watch passing in porsche supercup, and then subsequently watch schumacher win the F1 race with no passing at all.

 

Ive seen a few supercup races, and my impressions every time have been that its a richguy bumpercar series

 

Oh well, I enjoyed the Supercup coverage although yes it was highlights rather than the full blown versions. I will take whatever "bones" Speed will toss on roadracing. It ain't like the old days. Their contact reminds me of "smash" miata only faster and more expensive. Considering the closeness of the cars on performance, the contact is about inevitable.

Thanks to someone for reminding me about Australian V8 Supercars. I didn't know it was on. Programing my DVR now.

Barry H.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GreenFlag &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Agreed...Australian V8 is some of the best racing on Speed.

Speed is showing it again this year, but they changed the time. It is now on at 12:00 noon and/or 1:00 in the afternoon on Thursdays. The series started on Dec 2, so there isn't much left of the season.

http://www.speedtv.com/programs/85/</TD></TR></TABLE>

Its only a hour long coverage aren't the races 2 hours long?

 

Jon nailed it as usual. 360 challenge series is basically the same thing. top finishers are very good drivers, while a lot of them are just rich ppl having fun.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ghettoracer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Jon nailed it as usual. 360 challenge series is basically the same thing. top finishers are very good drivers, while a lot of them are just rich ppl having fun.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Huge difference between the field of Porsche Supercup racers and the 360 Challenge series.

The Porsche Supercup series is a rich mans league, but the rich guys are not the drivers but the team owners. Unlike the Challenge series at least 2/3rds of the grid at a Porsche Supercup race has world class talent. This year you had several German and European F3 Champions and two former F1 drivers (Zampedri, Monetermini) and several other big name drivers from ALMS and LeMans (Ortelli, Graf, Huisman).

These may not be household names over here but they are internationally known racers who have high level racing experience (F3/F3000/DTM/LeMans ...)

Last year Sasha Massen raced as well as Audi R8 LeMans driver Pierre Kaffa and others.

Some of you may not know that Mike Fitzgerald won the 99 Supercup and Cort Wagner won it in 2000.

The Challenge series has no talent whatsoever. At the front of the grid there might be two good drivers in any one year but over the past 3 years the series has had no talent and it nearly folded in 2003 when only 13 cars competed.

During the late 90's the Ferrari Challenge series had some decent drivers like Cort Wagner, Steve Earle and Jim Kenton, but those days are long gone.

Part of the problem is cost. It can now run nearly $400K to run at the front (including the price of the car). For this money you can run GA or ALMS (low budget but race nonetheless). Any one with any ability is going to race in GA not the Challenge series.

To give you an idea of the difference in talent look at the lap times back in 2002 (?)at the Indy F1 GP. The Porsche Supercup guys were a tad faster in the Porsches (370 hp) than the 360 C's (400 hp). The Porsche guys set these times in damp conditions while the 360 racers ran in the dry.

Regards,

Jon

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by apexinghonda &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I will take whatever "bones" Speed will toss on roadracing. It ain't like the old days. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm done with the '22 hrs a day of NASCAR Speed channel'. Calling cable guy tomorrow and dropping it. I'm paying an extra $13 per month for it and now I get maybe 2-3 hrs of good road racing per month. Sucks!

Oh, how I miss the 'Speedvision' days!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FLATOUTRACING &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Some of you may not know that Mike Fitzgerald won the 99 Supercup and Cort Wagner won it in 2000.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Isn't what they won the Porsche Cup for the highest ranking Porsche driver in the world? I thought it was some thing where they calculate points based on finishes in series, and the harder the series, the most valuable the points are. I didn't think they raced in the Porsche Supercup series aside from one-offs at Indy.

Of course, as usual, I'm probably wrong.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sean O’Gorman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Isn't what they won the Porsche Cup for the highest ranking Porsche driver in the world? I thought it was some thing where they calculate points based on finishes in series, and the harder the series, the most valuable the points are. I didn't think they raced in the Porsche Supercup series aside from one-offs at Indy.

Of course, as usual, I'm probably wrong. </TD></TR></TABLE>

You are correct. Mike and Cort won it based on overall points. I think only Mike competed in the actual Supercup series (ran at Indy and possible Montreal).

Jon