84mm Darton Sleeves, Eagle rods, JE 12.5.1 pistons, Ferrea .5mm oversized valves (I know what Skunk2 says), SK2 stgII cams, IM, Valvesprings & Retainers, STR 68mm TB, P+P head, everything is portmatched, Walboro 255 fuel pump, AEM FPR & Rail, RC 310 injectors, Headertech Header, Invidia exhaust, Hondata S200.

Now. I made 207.9 at around 8400. This is all with just a few runs of computer tuning. The tuner just set the ignition timing to stock, fule pressure to 42psi and left the cam gears at 0. They would not touch anything else and told I was not going to make anymore power and to be happy. That comment made me mad. What do you guys think? Thanks.

 

With the cam gears untouched, I would definitely say you have more power left.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TGUNNER &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Now. I made 207.9 at around 8400. This is all with just a few runs of computer tuning. The tuner just set the ignition timing to stock, fule pressure to 42psi and left the cam gears at 0. They would not touch anything else and told I was not going to make anymore power and to be happy. That comment made me mad. What do you guys think? Thanks.</TD></TR></TABLE>


Those injectors are waaaay too puny for a 2L setup like yours.

Also, cam gears and timing are VERY important in the tuning process.

I'd say take it somewhere else. Maybe they meant you aren't going to make any more power with such small injectors? Look into the 440-450cc range for your next set.....

Did you clay your motor? What is the maximum advance/ retard on each cam?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


Those injectors are waaaay too puny for a 2L setup like yours.

Also, cam gears and timing are VERY important in the tuning process.

I'd say take it somewhere else. Maybe they meant you aren't going to make any more power with such small injectors? Look into the 440-450cc range for your next set.....

Did you clay your motor? What is the maximum advance/ retard on each cam?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes. I thought the the injectors were too small also. The tuner said no there is enough fuel. My head is spinning. This is why I came here. I def gonna go with bigger injectors to be safe.

The motor was clayed and there is pleanty of clearence to advance/retard the cam gears. I have the clearences written down at home from when the motor was assembled. We made sure there was going to be room for adjustment.

 

I have to disagree on the injector part. i dont have the calculations off the top of my head, but 310's seem just about right for that setup. Do you have the duty cycle numbers? Oh, and there definately is more power with the cams untouched. thats ridiculous. get a new tuner...

 

Nope, unfortunately no duty cycle numbers were givin to me.

 

That would tell you all you need to know about your injectors as far as being up to par or not

 

Ignition timing is where you are going to make a lot of your power through tunning.

A/F is more or less to keep the motor safe, you do get power out of tuning it, but for the most part tuners set it rich enough to be safe and get power out of playing with ignition timing.

Cam gears more or less shift the powerband up or down, you could probably get some more peak HP by playing with the cam timing as your torque is begining to dip at 8 - 8.5k

 

You have every reason to be mad. According to your graph your power is still climbing. Definitely get a new tuner. There is more power to be had even with your injectors (raise fuel pressure as necessary). As for your .5mm oversized valves with Skunk2 Stg. II cams how much clearance do you have with valve-to-valve contact?

 

also, look at the difference of the temps between his two runs..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StyleTEG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ignition timing is where you are going to make a lot of your power through tunning.

A/F is more or less to keep the motor safe, you do get power out of tuning it, but for the most part tuners set it rich enough to be safe and get power out of playing with ignition timing.

Cam gears more or less shift the powerband up or down, you could probably get some more peak HP by playing with the cam timing as your torque is begining to dip at 8 - 8.5k </TD></TR></TABLE>

My thoughts exactly! Thats why I asked "arent you going to reset the ignition timing?"
Also, you know what, I did not have my valve cover cut out. Maybe thats why they did not adjust the cam gears, so maybe it was just lazyness. Who knows?

Thats not 8-8.5 rpms. Thats MPH. I never seen a dyno sheet like without rpms. More problems...


Modified by TGUNNER at 6:35 PM 12/8/2004

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DC2-99 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You have every reason to be mad. According to your graph your power is still climbing. Definitely get a new tuner. There is more power to be had even with your injectors (raise fuel pressure as necessary). As for your .5mm oversized valves with Skunk2 Stg. II cams how much clearance do you have with valve-to-valve contact?</TD></TR></TABLE>

There is def plenty of clearence and room for adjustment. We made sure when the motor was assembled.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TGUNNER &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

There is def plenty of clearence and room for adjustment. We made sure when the motor was assembled.</TD></TR></TABLE>




good, plenty of people skip this step, then cry about it later when valves are bent...

 

find a new tuner then. you should have a good relationship with your tuner.

 

Your tuner sucks. Nuff said.

 

Thanks for all the replies. I guess I had to just hear it for myself. How much more power do you think there is to be made??

 

Your tuner is crazy if he thinks that's all you're going to get. Get a new one. Adjusting the cam gears is likely to get you up to 3-5 more ft-lbs at the top of the rpm range, which on these high-reving engines, can translate to almost 6-8 more HP.

That's if you were close to stock. You'd probably make a few more than that.


Of course, this is trial and error, and different cam settings might get you a bump in torque at various areas, so I would just be there when they do it, and provide your input.


I must say though, this is a very well setup VTEC engine. That torque curve is as flat as a pancake. I'd like to put it in an "motors for ricers" handbook, so kids could see how a real VTEC engine should work.

 

DEF MORE POWER LURKING UNDER THAT HOOD what were the A/F ratios also i noticed that was "uncorrected HP" if it was corrected (SAE) the numbers would change, usually for the better.

 

it would be significant gains throughout the powerband id think. if i had to guess id say maybe 10 horses at some places and maybe 5 or so ft/lbs. And that torque band is dam nice

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HOOKUPS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">DEF MORE POWER LURKING UNDER THAT HOOD what were the A/F ratios also i noticed that was "uncorrected HP" if it was corrected (SAE) the numbers would change, usually for the better.</TD></TR></TABLE>

kept in the 13.7-13.9 range
Ok now this brings me to another question. The wideband was placed in the tailpipe. Should it have not went in place of the primary o2 sensor?

 

not necessarily. the same method was used to tune my engine, and it worked out just fine..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by WAFFLES &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">With the cam gears untouched, I would definitely say you have more power left.</TD></TR></TABLE>

This may be true but no one wants to **** wth the cam gears with those oversized valves in there. Esp if u dont know the clearances.

If u had the stock valves in there i would say try cam gear tuning but u dont wanna have any contact with the oversize valves in there.

 

He says he has plenty of clearance because he checked. Obviously how much clearance is important...how many degrees can he go either way.

But with Hondata, I would have expected the tuner to at least touch the timing maps.

 

[QUOTE=WAFFLES]He says he has plenty of clearance because he checked. Obviously how much clearance is important...how many degrees can he go either way.QUOTE]

5 degrees retard and advance on each cam.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HOOKUPS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">DEF MORE POWER LURKING UNDER THAT HOOD what were the A/F ratios also i noticed that was "uncorrected HP" if it was corrected (SAE) the numbers would change, usually for the better.</TD></TR></TABLE>


what the normal temp that a dyno jet corrects to?
something like 70-75 degrees

because the actual air temp on the passess were like 45-55 degrees