Ever since the Porterfield Group Buy I've been looking into upgrading my brakes for the upcoming Auto-X season and just for daily driving. I was looking at Fastbrakes.com setup's as well and just had a few questions. I was looking at R4-S's up front and then a R4 ($6 more than the R4-S) in the rear for a daily driver. On stock rotors how do you think I'll be? I was also considering the rear Fastbrakes upgrade, considering the price. ($150-200) I plan on doing hopefully about 5-10 Auto-X's the next season and want to know what everyone thinks of this? Or should I just get the R4-S in the rear as well? Kinda lost here and just want comments/help because I don't know too much about brakes.

Thanks!

 

I've been running the R4S pads front and rear for about a year now, for daily driving and auto-x, and have been quite satisfied. They work well when cold, are very progressive in operation, seem kind to the rotors, and are quiet. They do dust a bit, but it washes right off.

After a few track days, I found that they do fade a little after repeated hard braking, so I got some R4 front pads for the track only. No fade now.

 

R-4 pads will chew your rotors. Your better off getting the R-4S pads all around for street/autox.

 

Thanks both of you guys first of all. Now also, what do you think about upgrading the rear with the Fastbrakes kit? Is it going to be overkill w/o upgrading the front? Also, slowSER, my friend has a 96 SE-R, lucky bastard shifted from 5th to 2nd on accident (wearing some winter gloves) and weird thing is, he only blew a rocker and 2 valves out of place and is fine now. Sorry, that was completely off-topic. Ok, from searches, researching, the R4-S's will last about 1-2 years correct and shouldn't make any noises, just excess dusting which hopefully isn't corrosive? Also, how difficult is a brake installation and how many bottles of Motul 600 should I get?

Thanks again!

 

I don't know what the kit is, but it's probably overkill anyway. Unless you have rear drum brakes, it's pointless to only upgrade rear brakes, IMO. Heck, I've never even run any kind of performance brake pad on the rear of my vehicles. Just stock or whatever I can get for cheap at the local auto parts store.

Swapping pads should be pretty easy. A simple ratchet or wrench set is about all that's needed to swap brake pads on most cars.

As for Motul, I'd get 2 bottles -- make sure you've completely flushed the system with the good stuff.

 

I run R4 for street, autox, and tracks which are easy on brakes. Hawk Blues the rest of the time. My car is not daily driven, but I do drive to and from track. Running the R4 on the street is just fine. They work fine when cold, but dust and squeek like mad. You will get looks at stop lights. I have not seen too much rotor wear either. I run the R4 with PowerSlots (for now) and the Blues with Brembo blanks.

As for autox, I would stay away from R4 and use R4S. The R4 doesn't have great inital bite and pedal feel when cold. A 60sec or so Autox course is not enough to heat them up. I won't run the R4 for AutoX next year.

 

FWIW, I echo some opinions above. I have had the same set of R4S's on the front of my SE-R's for approximately 20k miles, and they are probably 2/3 done. That is after a few autoXes, some touring laps, and some 8/10ths road course sessions as well. They work fine when cold, don't chew rotors, and do just fine for everything short of *****-out track duty. As Geezer mentioned, they do dust horribly, but the dust comes off easily. Great all-around pad, IMHO.

Now as for rear brakes... IMHO don't waste your money on any bigger rear setup. FWD cars use so little rear brake anyway, that I can't consider it money well-spent. Hell, I can think of FWD SCCA racecars that use stock pads in the rear with no problems!

(PS- I have had the same set of Axxis Metal Masters on the rear for probably 40k+ miles, including autoXes & track days, and they are nowhere near done yet.)

As for R4... never used them on the street or autoX, but I can't imagine they would be that good at low temps. Like, your first few stops of the day could be iffy. On a road course they are fantastic, and last pretty long too. (~15 full 25min sessions at VIR on MaddMatt's SE-R in one weekend wore them less than halfway down.)

I would also say you should look into Carbotech pads. Prices are significantly less than Porterfield, the pads are comparable if not better, the customer service is outstanding, and Carbotech does a lot for the sport in terms of support.

Hope that helps,

Jon

 

I agree... r-4s are the way to go for street / auto cross pads.... I love them

I ran the r-4 once one the street... 2 weeks later...I took them off....
I couldn't deal with the squeeking and the dust
But they are GREAT track pads... I wouldn't use anything else

 

yes, andie is very friendly and helpful!

 

I have the RS-4, and hate them for the track. However, they do make a good street pad. I'll be running Carbotech for VIR in February...

 

Panther Plus....

 

i just swapped out my panther plus for the stock pads, and after 2 days on track and ~20 or so daily driving they look like new . only reason i took them out is because i dont want to use them up on the street driving around since i'm not sure when my next track event will be. oh and the panther plus' cold have the same stopping ability as my stock pads do when they are hot. damn i really want to put em back in . oh and swapping pads shouldnt take more than 5 minutes, even I can do it that fast

Brian


[Modified by Lemon Drop, 8:47 PM 1/2/2002]

 

Wow, thanks a lot everyone!! Jon SE-R and slowSER, am I getting the feeling that I should just stay with the OEM pad in the rear and then just upgrade to the R4-S in the fronts? Or go with both? If it will make a difference I'd rather have both, plus it isn't too much more money.

Thanks again everyone!! Damn quick replys!

 

In my opinion, that's the best way to go for the needs and uses you described. But, that is just my opinion, based on my experiences, for what they're worth.

Jon

 

Heh...I don't know how good their info is, considering they both drive Nissans!

 

Stick with the OEM pads in the rear and get the Porterfield R4S' up front. That's my current setup and it works great for daily driving and autocrossing. The dusting is a bit more than I care for, but the increase in braking performance is more than makes up for it!

 

Swapping front pads is a piece of cake. Rears are just a little bit trickier. Bleeding the brake system is easy but tedious and takes two people (unless you have Speedbleeders or a brake fluid changer thingy).

 

hey hey, no need for that...

 

Actually, the R4 pads are streetable, but they're just too loud and way too damn expensive to use for street duty. Initial bite isn't as good as when they're warmed up, but it's really not that bad.

$.02

 

I've really, really liked my R4-S pads in the front for street and autocross. Damn things have lasted a LONG time and just plain work. For track use it's going to depend on you, and especially on the track. I ran the Ss at Roebling once last year and they did pretty damn well. The problem with Ports is that they're mad expensive y0.

In the back I run whatever ghetto *** pads the parts store of the day carries. On track too. So far I haven't seen/felt any compelling evidence to do otherwise.

But...definitely consider getting some Carbotech pads. Andie Lin, a regular poster here, has singlehandedly convinced me that Carbotech "gets it." Search this forum's archives for his posts and just read some stuff. I'll be getting a set of their track pads as soon as I'm out of Hawk Blues...and will probably outfit the Suburban with Carbotech stuff one day.

 

I'm with Shultz on this one. I use the cheapest-*** pads I can find on the back. They just don't do enough on a fwd car to really matter, IMO.

Front: For street/auto-x I use KVR. I suspect they are the same compound as R4-S since they cost about the same and pretty much behave just like R4-S pads (as in they need a little heat to really work well). For track, I use Panther +.

On the back, I use $9 Wearever Silver pads from Advance Auto. I haven't even stepped up to the Wearever Gold pads yet They've lasted all year (10 auto-x, 8 track weekends) and still have more.


Matt-with yet another SE-R (we're everywhere!)

 

My Nissan will run circles around your Honda!

 

Do I just use more rear brakes than everyone else?? I have gone through 3 sets of wearevers on the back of my prelude.. I go through the rear just as fast as the front basically.. Well, next year I am going to upgrade to Carbotech panthers in the back.. I need all the braking I can get...

But really, unless your actually RACING, there is no need to upgrade rear brakes (pad only)... Also, DO NOT use R4S pads on the track if you drive hard, I fried a new set in 2 light days of track driving..

I recomend Carbotech pads.. Awesome pads and you can't beat the customer service..

 

I can back up the Carbotechs. I run the Panther +. Andie is really cool too, I met up with him at a Sebring track day in early Dec. I ran a good 4-5 hours on track at Sebring, which is absolutley brutal on brakes and the damn things didnt wear for ****. These pads are amazing. The price is about comprable to the Hawk Blues, but I would buy carbotech any day just because of the customer service.

Back to porterfields,, I just bought some R4S's for the rear of my car (00 Si). I was running some performance friction pads up from at RR last Sept. with stock rears and the rear felt really squirlly going into turn 1. I need a tad bit more bite out back and think the R4S will do the trick. Im planning on switching them out for AutoX and track days only.

Let me know if anyone has any question or doubts about the carbotechs.

 

The Carbotech P+ is indeed beyond belief. My car picks up speed about as fast as a Type-R, yet weighs significantly more, and has smaller rotors, calipers, and pads to boot. With the P+ on the front I never run out of brakes no matter how fast or frequently I shave off 70 or 60 mph (on the track of course).