Well I made about 186HP and 126 TQ with Toda Camshafts, Toda Camgears set at 0,AEM FPR,RC 310 CC injectors, Holley Fuel Pump,JDM ITR Headers,Vision B Pipe, Spoon N1 exhaust,AEM intake WITH bypass valve I should have ran it short ram, and a VAFC. Wanted to know your input on this guys and this is a stock block. Im trying to push it to 200 HP so any suggestions without milling the head, port n polish or Hondata. Im trying to not touch the Bottom block. I will post my dyno graph in a little bit.


Modified by TodaR at 7:52 PM 12/1/2004


Modified by TodaR at 7:52 PM 12/1/2004


Modified by TodaR at 8:38 AM 12/2/2004


Modified by TodaR at 8:38 AM 12/2/2004


Modified by TodaR at 8:39 AM 12/2/2004


Modified by TodaR at 5:03 PM 12/2/2004

 

A detailed graph and lack of caps lock would help

 

mmm well I Dynoed 201whp w/ 135 tq on my Poormans ITR.
I had a GSR block w/ .25 OS USDM ITR pistons, a '00 SI head w/ a Comptech machine street port w/ a full radius valve job, Comptech match ported ITR mani w/ throttle body,ITR intake valves, a oem 1 layer head-gasket, portflow valve springs and reatiners, Skunk stage 2's, AEM CAI of a '00 SI, JDM ITR 4-1, a 8lb flywheel, 6-puck clutch, and a kazz lsd in a '00 si tranny.
I dynoed this at AEBS on a old Dynojet which is known to read a little low. heres a quick pick of my setup...

 

you aren't making much power

there are stock Type Rs making the power you have

Toda C's are well know to require high compression to achieve 200+ whp. Unless you build your bottom end - the most you can hope to achieve is 190ish.

If you're not willing to "mill the head, port n polish, hondata or build the bottom end" - YOU MIGHT AS WELL PUT YOUR STOCK CAMS BACK IN cause you're wasting your time.

BPR - who rocks the Toda Bs with 210 whp / 145 tq

 

Well I was thinking about putting ctr pistons next year cause im pretty broke due to school so im gonna be saving up for a port flow b16 head a buddy might sell to me next year.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Big Phat R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

there are stock Type Rs making the power you have

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Stock ITRs make 186whp???


or do you mean stock itr with a $1000+ header?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TodaR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Im trying to push it to 200 HP ... without milling the head, port n polish or Hondata. Im trying to not touch the Bottom block. </TD></TR></TABLE>
You can get up close to 200 HP <u>with</u> a Hondata but <u>without</u> cams.

I hope you don't mind my saying that I think you're working at it backwards. The Hondata could be adapted to your later modifications, easily, while giving you a big boost in power at the beginning stage of your modifying.

My chart is with stock cams:

 

GK,


You run the entire smsp exhaust correct? So from a base, your car has a pretty big advantage.

Put your exhaust, or any comparible piece on his car, and i bet he'd be at, or above 200whp.

Not to mention the some tuning from sgt.

 

Those numbers are kind of low

 

May I dare ask what you're running? Those are nice numbers for stock internals....

Doh...forgot. This message is for George...


Modified by lax1185 at 7:34 AM 12/2/2004

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TodaR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well I was thinking about putting ctr pistons next year cause im pretty broke due to school so im gonna be saving up for a port flow b16 head a buddy might sell to me next year.</TD></TR></TABLE>

ctr pistons with 91 octane gas in cali?

 

stock cams ,stock cr, stock block just bolt ons, kenji p28 and a vafc

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You can get up close to 200 HP <u>with</u> a Hondata but <u>without</u> cams.

I hope you don't mind my saying that I think you're working at it backwards. The Hondata could be adapted to your later modifications, easily, while giving you a big boost in power at the beginning stage of your modifying.

My chart is with stock cams:

</TD></TR></TABLE>

wow those numbers are exactly like mine with stock cams

 

 

I gots to get me some of that hondata

 

Boy this thread is a mess to read...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mike D &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">GK,


You run the entire smsp exhaust correct? So from a base, your car has a pretty big advantage.

Put your exhaust, or any comparible piece on his car, and i bet he'd be at, or above 200whp.

Not to mention the some tuning from sgt.</TD></TR></TABLE>


The plus is George has a more reliable setup to achieve the same power goals and after you add up all that Toda stuff the price difference isn't THAT much.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mike D &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">GK,


You run the entire smsp exhaust correct? So from a base, your car has a pretty big advantage.

Put your exhaust, or any comparible piece on his car, and i bet he'd be at, or above 200whp.</TD></TR></TABLE>
That entire exhaust, coupled with a good intake, got my motor (and it'd probably get any completely healthy ITR motor) up to 185 peak HP with a good, tight valve adjustment.

There is no way in bloody hell you're going to get that up to 200 HP on a properly calibrated dynomometer. Although there are a few extant threads here and there that'll illustrate that you can make a Mustang dyno say whatever you want it to say.

I'm advising the Hondata before breaking into the motor because the 185 HP vs the 192 HP doesn't tell the whole story. With the Hondata there is no VTEC peak, as you can see, and the torque is spread across a wide RPM range. When you drive the car, it feels more like a 2.0 K motor than a 1.8 B motor.

Although the peak is only about 7 HP different, the power under the curve is a big, big difference.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Not to mention the some tuning from sgt.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes, of course, the tuning makes all the difference in the world.

Guys, my car is <u>not</u> all that strong or all that fast. The changes that were made make a big difference in how easy it is to drive, especially on the track.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EVOL &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

ctr pistons with 91 octane gas in cali?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I think I agree with you. B16 pistons are a more reasonable solution for a car that's driven on the street frequently, but if the motor's healthy I wouldn't go into it to make the change.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bbasso &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Boy this thread is a mess to read...
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Try turning your HID on it. Or maybe you need another beer to focus.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by danny98r &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">stock cams ,stock cr, stock block just bolt ons, kenji p28 and a vafc</TD></TR></TABLE>
Your chart is interesting. The figures we'd quote from those two charts would be similar.

I think I like my Hondata chart a little better because of the power under the curve. I seem to have power available to me at a lower RPM than you have.

I'm guessing, however, that your Kenji+VAFC cost less than my Hondata.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Your chart is interesting. The figures we'd quote from those two charts would be similar.

I think I like my Hondata chart a little better because of the power under the curve. I seem to have power available to me at a lower RPM than you have.

I'm guessing, however, that your Kenji+VAFC cost less than my Hondata. </TD></TR></TABLE>

What intake did you dyno with George?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by KayOs &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

What intake did you dyno with George? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Shhhh.....

[whisper]Filter on a stick.[/whisper]

I drive w/the Icebox simply because it looks OEM and it is quiet.

 

i am very pleased with the numbers and that it cost me almost nothing to reach that power output. mods are aem cai, t1r catback with test pipe, jdm header, kenji p28 with vafc. i do have a ctr intake cam everything else is a stock 98 usdm b18c5

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
.

There is no way in bloody hell you're going to get that up to 200 HP on a properly calibrated dynomometer. Although there are a few extant threads here and there that'll illustrate that you can make a Mustang dyno say whatever you want it to say.

</TD></TR></TABLE>


i should have clarified. I meant if you put a sms, or compariable exhaust on his his existing motor, that is with the spec c's, he would see 200whp

You are 100% right that no itr motor will make 200whp with your set-up.


Here is what makes me mad though: there are a lot people saying its low, etc. Dynos do not read the same thing everyday of week.

Dynos can vary so much that it worthless to compare what you dyno'd at, to what some guy dyno'd at some other day, in who knows what part of the country.

Take the numbers for what they are worth, and dont make broad, generalized assumptions using the dyno graph.