I was reading online about left-foot braking and want to know what you guys think. From what this guy was saying, espically in auto-x where you need quick managable rotation left footing can help with that. I've never tryed it before, well, I mean, I've gotten brake induced oversteer before but never left footed. Have any of you tried this? Did it make a difference? I don't see many people using it around here but it appears that a lot of rally drivers use it. Wouldn't the weight transfer induse Understeer?

thanks

 

first, left foot braking, if done improperly, can hurt more then it helps. brake in the manner that is comfortable for you.

left foot braking's biggest advantage is that you can overlap your brake and accelerator inputs, smoothing out the transition between the two. this reduces the magnitude and severity of the weight transfer, providing a more balanced and faster chassis. i would NOT use to help the chassis rotate though. i've done it in the past on accident and it "worked", but i truly beleive i could have been even faster had a set the car up for the element better.

using lfb to help the chassis rotate should not be confused with trail-braking. trail-braking can be accomplished with either rfb or lfb, and can occasionally be a huge factor in your time on course. take the pro finale this year. one of the last elements on the course required a huge amount of trail-braking to drive it right. i "did it right" on the left course and set fast time on that side. never quite got it on the right though, ended up .6 off the leader.

nate

 

What he said.

I got it wrong on the right side because apparently WRX's lift inside rears when trail braking on concrete. Yay ice mode!

 

it took me a few autox events of practice before getting a good feel for left foot braking and it definately slowed my times down a lot while learning, but once i got accustomed to it it showed. i cant say for sure it made me all that much faster but it made my driving a LOT smoother and there was no longer that transition from throttle to brake to throttle. the best place it helped improve was in multiple cone slaloms where i could just stay on the throttle the whole time and modulate the brake for the max speed i needed. its not for everyone, but its worth giving it a shot for a few events.

now for track driving i dont ever use left foot braking. maybe one day ill find a turn on a particular track i see the need, but till then ill just stick with the old fashion way.

 

I've attempted LFB numerous times on my auto accord, but the brake pedal placement really makes my left leg hurt, when daily driving Perhaps I can "move" the pedal to left a little?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LX4CYL &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've attempted LFB numerous times on my auto accord, but the brake pedal placement really makes my left leg hurt, when daily driving Perhaps I can "move" the pedal to left a little? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Same with the del sol, the foot box is so small, I have to rotate my left foot in to make contact with the pedal, without getting in the way of my right heal.

 

Do a search, there are a ton of previous posts on this subject.

 

LFB ownz... use it to rotate the car in the same way as trailbraking, but you have to practice, practice, practice on the street to get a good feel for it.

 

I taught myself left foot braking, heel and toe and rev matching back in the mid-'80s when I delivered pizzas in college in a company owned Chevette. Basically you weren't going anywhere really fast so you may as well get the most out of the drive. At first, it feels really alien as your left leg is not accustomed to modulating and pushing pedals with that much force. After a bit of practivce, it becomes second nature and I don't think about it at all.

The key is modulation and light usage, most LFB newbies end up ham footedly overbraking and slowing the car when on throttle and just making the car load up and fight itself. Proper LFB is about maintianing consistent load and balance. It is not that well suited to practice on the street where you really don't have a great deal of pre-knowledge or control of traffic that you will always know in advance when to use it. Until it becomes second nature, you need to mentally and physically shift over and that can be dangerous if you are not on top of the situation. In the Pizza Racer Chevette, we had a long parking lot to navigate/shortcut around that had about 10 turns and no traffic so you always knew what was coming up and could focus on refining the skill. If you have some controlled area turns on your commute to work or school, it is a great time to play with it.

I LFB in autocross and track racing by total second nature now for nearly 20 years and feel that it is quite helpful to keep balance on the edge of handling where smoothness is a must however I sometimes do it lightly unknowingly in autocross a bit too much often when I'd be better off staying away from the brake completely.

Try it and get used to it while you train your left leg a new skill but be sure to be in a situation where your focus is a bit distracted from instictive reactions.

 

Another method you can use to practice the feel is in karts. If you have any kart tracks in your area, even just basic kiddie tracks you can at least start to generate a feel. Then you can move on to a regular car in situations described above.

I use my LF to break most of the time in autocrossing. It is the most natural thing for me.

 

I experimented a little with LFB in my Mazda 323 (FWD) rally car last winter in winter solo events. The point of LFB in low-traction situations with a FWD car is to apply the brakes to all 4 wheels but to overpower the braking to the front wheels with the throttle, thus braking only the rears in a way that's easier to modulate than using the handbrake. Of course this robs power, but this is for conditions where you couldn't get all the available power to the ground in the first place because there is no grip.

 

Like Lee, I also learned LFB "Back in the day" and its totally second-nature now. On the street, I can (and do) brake with either foot, but on the track I can't even force myself to use the right foot anymore. I won't start preaching on the advantages of LFB since its been covered well before, but I personally believe its a HUGE advantage (if you do it well) in lower-powered cars, especially FWD.

You can more easily develop the braking feel of your left foot on the street if your daily driver is an automatic. That way you don't have to deal with the whole shifting thing, which adds complexity to the technique. That's how I learned. And I still do it today in my daily-driver tow vehicle (Jeep GC). Especially when dicing in traffic on the twisty canyon four-lane behind my house. ^H^H^H^H^H No wait, ignore that last part. I would *never* do that!!!

--Andy

 

I've been an LFB guy since day one but am increasingly aware of the fact that I tend to fall into the trap of using the brakes too much, regardless of which foot does the pushing. I put a moratorium on the practice for the latter part of this past season and I think my times improved because of it. I will still fall back on it in the wet, I expect...

K

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Andy Hollis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You can more easily develop the braking feel of your left foot on the street if your daily driver is an automatic. That way you don't have to deal with the whole shifting thing, which adds complexity to the technique.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Good point that I forgot to mention about the automatic:

2 pedals + 2 feet = No reason not to try it

My step-father who taught me much of what I know about driving and cars always said that left footing an automatic let you take advantage of an essentially variable gear ratio in loading the torque converter.

 

I'm no good at LFB. I've tried it a few times in the MR2 with no luck. When I tried it in Kumho's Mini Coopers, I kept overshooting the turn and skidding off course. Same with when I drove the Corolla demo car at the lame Put it in Play event in Cleveland a few months back (I really pissed off the "pro" girl when that happened). I'm not sure what the problem is since I've had no problem in karts or in video games, but I seem to get in a bad habit of never lifting my right foot whenever I try to LFB.

I guess that is why I drive a mid-engined, RWD car. Instead of using LFB to rotate, I just have to increase RFT.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CRX Lee &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Good point that I forgot to mention about the automatic:

2 pedals + 2 feet = No reason not to try it

My step-father who taught me much of what I know about driving and cars always said that left footing an automatic let you take advantage of an essentially variable gear ratio in loading the torque converter.</TD></TR></TABLE>I drive an automatic every day and I'll be damned if I'm not too lazy to remember to do that every morning. I drive back and forth to school twice a day and if I'm supposed to be some great shoe (according to me, heh) I guess I should be doing it just out of respect for other people's hardcoreness. Then again, I don't really have any trouble with it anymore.

One of the reasons I rarely use it on an autocross course is because the cars I drive are all low-powered and while it helps smoothness I tend to brake too much when I do it, like others mentioned. I suppose that just means I'm not doing it as well as I could and I should practice, but I don't like losing and I go slower with it so that should tell you how often I'm willing to throw away a run for practice.

 

Woot welcome Andy Hollis who placed 2nd in STS by .006 seconds! And his wife who co-drove with Jim Harnish and myself in FSP/L

 

LFB is something i want to learn. i was told it will help eliminate oversteer problems that i have.. so much to learn...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by spock_rocker &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">LFB is something i want to learn. i was told it will help eliminate oversteer problems that i have.. so much to learn... </TD></TR></TABLE>

Interesting, from what I understand it is used for reducing understeer. Like if you enter a turn too fast and your front end is "skating" then you LFB to transfer weight to the front wheels to get them to "stick" better.

If LFB can be used to reduce oversteer problems then PLEASE enlighten me because I thought that whenever you apply brake pressure it will transfer (x) amount of weight to the front wheels which, in any imaginable situation, would increase oversteer.

 

LFB can help reduce oversteer. If you lock the front brakes up early with your left foot and plow off the track.

There was a post here a few months ago, and it started with something like "I spun my car left foot braking, and i dont know why because the pro driver on ititial d said he uses LFB to stop oversteer..."

I have a bad feeling thats where this comes from. Myself, I cant sit through 5 min of one of those cartoons.

There are some really good discussions of LFB here on the threads, with good info techniques.. etc..

Essentially:
Use it to keep the RPMs up while planting the nose to help the car rotate.
Use it to minimize transfer time from the brake/throttle
Use it to steer the car mid corner, much the same way you might use the throttle..


Jon K
http://www.seat-time.com

 

I remember the first time I drove a kart, with the brake pedal on the left. Seemed really hard to learn, for about 2 seconds, then it made perfect sense. But in my car I have a really hard time doing it. And practicing on the street doesn't seem like a good idea either.

 

As far as practicing on the street, its not that bad.. you dont have to push the limits of hold the throttle down while you are practicing.. just start using your left foot to come to a stop.. lights, stop signs, etc.. you will start to learn the modulation, and then later you can throw the harder stuff in.

Jon K
http://www.seat-time.com

 

So my understeering of it is that, hopefully without swaping ends, you can use it the same as I use throttle steer, only without lifting. You can also use it to help with weight transfer/rotation if your pushing out of a corner. If that correct it really does mmake sense, espically in low powered FWD cars.

 

Yep. you pretty much got it. Though i probably use it more for quick/smooth transfer from brake to the throttle and fast bends/slaloms/chicago boxes where i want to keep the RPMs up.

I also use it in the RWD cars though instead of throttle steer.. depends on my mood and what exactly the car is doing.

Jon K
http://www.seat-time.com

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Use it to keep the RPMs up while planting the nose to help the car rotate.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I've seen this before but don't understand it. Assuming you are in gear (and you are not spinning the tires and have a clutch that does not slip), why would the RPMs drop or otherwise be affected in any way by not LFB?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by racerjon1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Use it to minimize transfer time from the brake/throttle
Use it to steer the car mid corner, much the same way you might use the throttle..
</TD></TR></TABLE>
That's pretty much it. You can also use it on a turbo car to remain in positive boost and have reduced lag once you need maximum acceleration again.