The Set Up:
2000 integra gsr. Stock block. stock head.
Magnecore 8.5 wires.
NGK Iriduim ( i know i need colder plugs)
Full Rev Hard Stage 2c Kit.
includes. Vortech FMU, Walbro Fuel Pump.
STR Fuel Rail. Stock Injectors.
APEXI Super AFC 1st model. ( box) yes AFC not VAFC.
5-8 lbs of boost. 93 octane. i believe thats about it.
Auto Meter Air.fuel. Apexi EGT Apexi Boost gauges.

The problem:
Runs strong and powerful aire fuel mix on stoich (yellow) 1st gear up to 5k RPM. when it gets about ready to boost, car runs completely lean. 1 Red Bar. Through out the rest of the gears are smiliar. if i try to boost or step on the gas pedal a little more than average driving, the car runs lean and runs like ****.
in my mind im thinking wrong vaccum? running to or from Vortech Fmu. ?
i am using a stock map sensor, i did try using a missing link.
IT ran and idled completely like ****, so i just used factory.

all help is greatly appreciated and thankful fored.

 

do not boost your car until you figure it out!

How are you monitoring air-fuel? Please not aa autometer a/f gauge.

edit: reading owns me


autometer a/f gauge are not accurate


i will not be suprised if you havent already damaged your motor.

im sure you've heard this many times but you need to get your car dynoed with a real wideband and if you half to drive your car, stay out of boost.


Modified by 1bar at 10:13 PM 11/29/2004

 

thank you for your help. my concern is what could cause this leaning out during low stages of booost, i wont be able to dyno tune my car or wideband tune it for awhile, because there is not a shop near by to do the magic. i am also currently rebuilding another set up i will use with this turbo kit with a hondata s200b, whichi will probally have done by the summer, so i do not want to spend the time or money on this stock low boost set up. the apexi afc is set to run rich, but again that is not with any monitoring device. i set it rich while the car was N/a. to run for low boost now.
could it be the map sensor., or maybe wrong wiring on the vortech fmu?
maybe another problem some one has had and figured out.?
i have ran boost on a stock motor before and did not have this problem,
i was using t's and a hose for my map sensor rather than trying a missinglink or stock map.
Help please. car is a daily driver , i just need to get it running decently yet somewhat safe. i know its possible!... Techs i would appreciate the help greatly.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BoostedVtecGsr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The Set Up:
2000 integra gsr. Stock block. stock head.
Magnecore 8.5 wires.
NGK Iriduim ( i know i need colder plugs)
Full Rev Hard Stage 2c Kit.
includes. Vortech FMU, Walbro Fuel Pump.
STR Fuel Rail. Stock Injectors.
APEXI Super AFC 1st model. ( box) yes AFC not VAFC.
5-8 lbs of boost. 93 octane. i believe thats about it.
Auto Meter Air.fuel. Apexi EGT Apexi Boost gauges.

The problem:
Runs strong and powerful aire fuel mix on stoich (yellow) 1st gear up to 5k RPM. when it gets about ready to boost, car runs completely lean. 1 Red Bar. Through out the rest of the gears are smiliar. if i try to boost or step on the gas pedal a little more than average driving, the car runs lean and runs like ****.
in my mind im thinking wrong vaccum? running to or from Vortech Fmu. ?
i am using a stock map sensor, i did try using a missing link.
IT ran and idled completely like ****, so i just used factory.

all help is greatly appreciated and thankful fored. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Well what 1bar is trying to tell you is that the Autometer gauge does not read accurately, so it could be that your either running rich or you could be running lean. Your probably better off running either an EGT gauge or a wideband to get more accurate readings.

Based on what you have, you have the sufficient fuel but the stock injectors might be running full duty cycle. Stock injectors i believe is like 250-270cc. You've got the Walbro 255GPH pump, a Vortech 12:1 FMU. You've got tons of fuel but nowhere to go with it. Guessing that your running stock fuel pressure also, you have about 100+psi of fuel pressure running to the rail.

My suggestion would be upgrade the injectors to at least 370 or 440cc. The Apexi SAFC will be able to control it. Then I would dump the FMU and just run a FPR that is 1:1 boost dependant eg. AEM or so.

More than likely your are running lean right now. So do yourself a favor, and fix it b4 its too late

 

its the guage, and unless your injectors are fucked your more than likely running overly rich.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid Performance &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well what 1bar is trying to tell you is that the Autometer gauge does not read accurately, so it could be that your either running rich or you could be running lean. Your probably better off running either an EGT gauge or a wideband to get more accurate readings.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The Autometer narrowband Air/Fuel ratio gauges are nothing more than a dancing light display. You definitely need a wideband setup like a PLX, Innovative, AEM, etc. to monitor your air/fuel in a more civilized and accurate method.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid Performance &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My suggestion would be upgrade the injectors to at least 370 or 440cc. The Apexi SAFC will be able to control it. Then I would dump the FMU and just run a FPR that is 1:1 boost dependant eg. AEM or so.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I would also agree that you are close to full duty on the stock injectors. If you have the $ I would suggest an OBD1 ECU + harness and Hondata with an injector upgrade (440cc). Of course there are some other cheaper alternatives that seem to work such as an AFC hack with 450cc DSM injectors. Definitely get a dyno soon if anything and do some runs to see where you stand as in detonation, air/fuel, etc. before you do some serious damage.

 

Your problem is your fuel pump. A Walbro in-tank pump cannot supply enough fuel at the rail (100+ psi) for the Vortech FMU. You NEED an inline pump when running that type of configuration. You may do a search to verify if you'd like since this issue is revisited once a week or so.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by iiilgsrlll &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Your problem is your fuel pump. A Walbro in-tank pump cannot supply enough fuel at the rail (100+ psi) for the Vortech FMU. You NEED an inline pump when running that type of configuration. You may do a search to verify if you'd like since this issue is revisited once a week or so. </TD></TR></TABLE>

i guess me and 2 of my freinds are the exception then, 1 is running 7 psi on a drag 3 kit with inline walbro and fmu, the other is running a vsc on 8psi with walbro an fmu, and im running 5 psi on a revhard kit with you guessed it, a walbro and fmu.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slowpokesi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

i guess me and 2 of my freinds are the exception then, 1 is running 7 psi on a drag 3 kit with inline walbro and fmu, the other is running a vsc on 8psi with walbro an fmu, and im running 5 psi on a revhard kit with you guessed it, a walbro and fmu.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I was referring to the IN-TANK Walbro. That's the first thing that comes to mind when someone says Walbro. If you are running a Walbro IN-LINE then you wouldn't have any problems. The last time I checked the Drag kits came with Airtex inlines....has it changed since then? But I should have asked whether that Walbro was in-tank or inline.

 

ohhh my bad, i mis read what you wrote, his kit came with a walbro, maybe it was an upgrade,

 

thank you hybrid great information. i do have an inline. and yes i still have the problem. hybrid your info makes alot of sense. but i did have one curiosity.... if i am running over way too rich wouldn't it show on the gauge.. or smell of gas? the car lags out like it doesnt have enough gas. thank you for the help. more is appreciated if possible

 

as said before you cannot trust your autometer a/f gauge.

a stock o2 sensor is a narrowband unit which means it works from 0-1v while a wideband works from 0-5v. However as you know your autometer is using a stock sensor (0-1v) that basically tells you if you are in open or closed loop and doesnt really tell you an exact air/fuel ratio (11.5:1) for example.

If you value your motor i would not boost any longer untill you get all your fuel issues worked out.

does anyone think the ecu could be in limp mode? because hes not using the
missing link?

what are your settings on the afc?

jake

 

the automeeter dookie guage is good for telling you 3 things.. leaner than 14.7, 14.7 or richer than 14.7.

in boost that thing should be burried in the rich side. get a fuel pressure guage and make sure you have proper fuel pressure. did you get the fmu used?? if so its likley that its broken, or you have the lines hooked up wrong.