i need to build a role cage for my del sol i like the x brace design and am going to use that as a base. what i am wondering is should i use steel or chromoly tubing. also is there Any way to bend without a tubing bender because i done have access to one. what i was thinking is filling the pipe with sand and capping both ends then building a jig to bend around and torch and bend. or if someone out there had a mandrel bender and wants to bend me some angles i could buy them from you and then just piece it together that could work to

 

If you don't have access to a tubing bender, you are pretty much out of luck. You are going to need a draw through type mandrel in order to get a proper bend for roll cages. Definitely don't piece it together like you suggested. That could be very dangerous in a case of an accident. The best way to do it is to buy a prebent hoop and go from there. I can help by bending up some stuff for you if you need it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cstay &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i need to build a role cage for my del sol i like the x brace design and am going to use that as a base. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Is this going to be a 4-point or 6-Point?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cstay &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what i am wondering is should i use steel or chromoly tubing. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Chromoly is steel, if you didn't know that. It just has more carbon content than your "mild" steels, and has .8-1.1% Chromium (the Chro part) and .15-.25% molybdenum per wieght (The Moly part).
Plus some other stuff in low amounts.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cstay &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what i was thinking is filling the pipe with sand and capping both ends then building a jig to bend around and torch and bend.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't know why people continue to think you can bend a structural tube just by getting it hot. There is no need to get it hot, in fact, that is just bad for the material, once it heats past a certain point. You need a bender.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cstay &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> and then just piece it together that could work to </TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mazworx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Definitely don't piece it together like you suggested. That could be very dangerous in a case of an accident. </TD></TR></TABLE>

You said you "need" to cage the sol, so I'm hoping it's a racing need, not a "show car points" need. If I'm right, then, not only is the piecing worthless and very dangerous, but the steward that lets a cage like that cage through tech should be strung up and shot.

 

in order to run my car at the track i am going to need harnesses. In order to run a harness i don't want to run a Benson bar id rather have a full xbrace. I think with two 90degree bends i would be able to do it because all of the rest would be straight pieces. Chromoly tubing is stronger than mild steel correct? also what do u need to use to weld chromoly tubing thanks for the help guys.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cstay &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">in order to run my car at the track i am going to need harnesses. In order to run a harness i don't want to run a Benson bar id rather have a full xbrace.</TD></TR></TABLE>

So, this is going to be a roll bar, not a roll cage. I had no idea what you meant by x-brace until you mentioned the Benson bar.

Also, for HDPEs and many open track days you do not need a harness. However, you cannot run one without a cage/suitable bar.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cstay &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I think with two 90degree bends i would be able to do it because all of the rest would be straight pieces. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Ok, I guess you didn't really catch it the last time, so I'll be more expicit. The main roll hoop must be one peice, and only one peice. You cannot piece together a hoop out of 3 straight tubes, and two bent peices. This is extremely dangerous.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cstay &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Chromoly tubing is stronger than mild steel correct? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Not necessarily. It's sort of comparing apples to oranges. It's all in the application, and you can't make orange juice with Granny Smith's best. However, for this application, yes, 4130 (Chromoly) would be suitible. BUT!! You should consider stress relieveing (This is what I'd do, it's not required) your nodes after the cage is complete, and use Mild steel base plates, not 4130/4140.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cstay &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">also what do u need to use to weld chromoly tubing thanks for the help guys.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Chromoly is simply carbon steel. It's the same damn steel you're used to seeing, only it has a couple extra bits of **** in it, and more carbon (by like .05%/wieght). So, that said, you'll need a welder. For MIG, the correct wire. For TIG, 4130 filler (For cage tube, I would suggest 1/16th" Oxweld). Don't bother with Oxy/Acetelene or "Stick". Easy enough.

But, take my advice. If you don't even know what you need to weld it, or what materials you need, you won't be able to build this. It's not a personal insult to you. I just don't want to see someone go out, and spend a shitload of cash on 4130 tube, and not be able to tech out what they make. I would suggest that you measure the car, design it, take the design to someone who knows cages, get their input, then pay someone else to make it. Or, make a lot of smaller things for a couple months, until you feel that you are able to complete this, then make it. Don't jump head first into a pool you haven't filled with water yet.

 

i have only welded mild steel and am good at it i go to school for automotive and had a class in welding also been welding for about 5 years but never welded aneythign besides mild steel. if i measured out the rear hoop would u be able to bend it and send it to me then i could weld in the other 2 bars and all of lower flanges to bolt it in.

 

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1019855
there is an idea of what i want to build

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cstay &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i have only welded mild steel and am good at it i go to school for automotive and had a class in welding also been welding for about 5 years but never welded aneythign besides mild steel. if i measured out the rear hoop would u be able to bend it and send it to me then i could weld in the other 2 bars and all of lower flanges to bolt it in.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ok, this helps. If you can weld mild, you can weld 4130.

I can't send you a hoop, but I think Mazworx said he could, shoot him a PM.

PS - It's going to be more than 2 bars. It's actually going to be 4, don't forget that an X is actually 3 pieces, and you'll need a 4th for harness connection. While you're at it, I would do some "arm" bars for at least a little vertical strength. Look at the Mazworx (Happened to look at it this morning) drag cage, lop off the back, and you'll see what I mean.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cstay &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1019855
there is an idea of what i want to build
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Do you mean SolSurvivor's bar? One thing you have to look at in that bar is that it isn't legal in any racing series I can think of.

EDIT: Isn't legal in any series that REQUIRES a bar/cage.

 

yeah that looks like a good simple design i also want to weld on tabs to bolt to the stock seat belt bolts on the b pillar.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cstay &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> i also want to weld on tabs to bolt to the stock seat belt bolts on the b pillar. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Hmmm, what for?

 

i know its a secore place to bolt to so i figure extra securety i have confidence of welding it togeather i just cant bend tubing and dontk now physics of metals and i know if i have somone helping me showing me what is right and wronfd i can produce it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cstay &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i know its a secore place to bolt to so i figure extra securety</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm not understanding what you would want to bolt there, though. What do you need to bolt to that place?

 

i just figured the bar will go past it and its a stong upper place to bolt to is it not a good idea?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cstay &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i just figured the bar will go past it and its a stong upper place to bolt to is it not a good idea?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I've never seen anything of that configuration. I made a quick sketch to see if I understand what you mean, tell me if I'm wrong.

Picture it from the front of the car, and yes, I know I have M@d paint skillz.

The green is the places I think you're talking about.

 

thats correct. just one ross brace from the bottom of the passingers side to the top of the drivers one bar going horizontaly across for the harness and the two tabs connecting to where the seat bealt attaches to the frame near your shoulder i wanted to put these tabs in to make the cage srtonger and stop it from roling foward in a front end colision.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cstay &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> i wanted to put these tabs in to make the cage srtonger and stop it from roling foward in a front end colision.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ok, instead of that, you need to do some sort of side impact member/sill bars, coming to the chassis more towards the front of the car.

These are called roll bars for a reason. If the car goes over, you need 4 points, on a plane perpendicular to the force, to displace the load. Otherwise the bar will just fold under the pressure (Read - Kill You). 2 points in the perpendicular and one in the parallel plain won't do.

Oh, and just as a place to know where I'm coming from, I would trust Solsurvivor's bar as far as I could throw it, and I'm not known for my strength.

 

so i need a bar across the door?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cstay &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so i need a bar across the door? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Sort of. You should have a bar slanting down "the door."

But, in my opinion, the only good (and legal) cage is a 6 point, which is a complete ***** in a delsol. Keep that in mind.

 

What would this "bar" be used for? Like, specific application. Is it a drag, track, rally, etc...

 

Wat about a bar from the harness brace at an angle down inbetween the seats to stop it from folding foward?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cstay &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wat about a bar from the harness brace at an angle down inbetween the seats to stop it from folding foward?</TD></TR></TABLE>

That would be more effective, it's not the four points you want, but it's leaps and bounds above the bolting to the B pillar.

 

it will be a street car that i will run at the track it shold be low 11 car. and i have regs at the track for harness and helmit.

 

so i thought bolting it to the seatbelt harness and also the bar in the middle would be stong enough to stop the bar from roling foward. what would be the angle i would want with the center piec

 

send me your address and I will see what shipping would be to you. I have a 93 sol with main hoop and harness bar, and can make another while we a finishing my 4x4 cage.