First lap a neon was in the lead..... went through the grass at about turn 11 and then just totally smacked a CTS and flipped it..... what happened to looking before coming back on track from the grass? Probably caused $30k of damage.... o well....

then...later.... a different Neon seemed to have the inside line on a CTS for the lead into turn 1........they both went off.....then 1 turn later TC Kline appears to have the line into 2 but has to smack the same Neon.....looked like the Neon tried to squeeze out Kline........ then the Neon appears to purposely run into Kline in madness..... so Kline purposely smacked the back of a Neon and spun himself out.... i think he took out the Neon....

After running Honda Challenge in NASA for a year.....What a different world of racing when you have piles of $ to waste and SCCA Rules (are there any rules?). i guess there are no rules on the bumping, etc...?

Glad we don't have that kind of crap..... it would certainly be fun to play bumper cars out there but not if it is my $.

 

Just saw that..... exciting race

 

I just caught the tail end of that T-2 race ..... interesting, like the WWF of Road Racing.

 

Yeah, just finished watching the race. Holy crap! It looked as if the Neon kept full throttle then just flew back on track and completely took out the CTS. What a wreck! Accidents happen but I agree with you Scot, they took the "rubbing is racing" idea to the next level.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Scot &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What a different world of racing when you have piles of $ to waste and SCCA Rules (are there any rules?). i guess there are no rules on the bumping, etc...?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, Scot, the SCCA does have rules regarding contact, just as NASA does. As you found out this year in ECHC, application of those rules is not always consistent week to week and driver to driver.

Some would argue that the stakes are just a little bit higher at the Runoffs than with some ECHC race. Many of those entries equate to what are factory-backed efforts, and these are the National championships. There's also TV exposure, there's exposure for sponsors etc. that you'll never see in ECHC.

That said, some of the driving was extremely agressive and I believe that in a regional or even a regular national event some of these drivers would either have been the focus of RFA's or protests from fellow drivers.

 

I guess it did make for some damn good tv! Some of those guys either have great sponsors or huge $$$$$ (or both).

Hopefully (like Gregg said) that was not indictative of a typical SCCA race....

crazy *** chit!

 

Best bumper car action I've seen in a while

 

Fernandez was dropped 2 positions for his on-track conduct and Kline was penalized 1 for his.

 

watched it and whoa! on the side smacking of an SRT4 into a Caddy and flipping it

Great race with lots of action. It comes on again December @ 4am.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sean O’Gorman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Fernandez was dropped 2 positions for his on-track conduct and Kline was penalized 1 for his.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thanks, Sean. I was searching furiously for the final results and the SCCA website is really no easier to navigate now than it was before.

Final results are here: http://ww2.scca.com/clubresults.php?ID=199

So you see, Scot, there are rules in the SCCA.

 

Kline's thing was just plain stupid...... he was in 2nd place and instead of just out racing the neon, he took himself to the tire wall and finished 11th or so.... then got the penalty...... That kind of mentality is just stupid...... why blow the entire race trying to take someone out?

o well.... i taped it so i can watch it again.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sean O’Gorman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Fernandez was dropped 2 positions for his on-track conduct and Kline was penalized 1 for his.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Scot &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Kline's thing was just plain stupid...... he was in 2nd place and instead of just out racing the neon, he took himself to the tire wall and finished 11th or so.... then got the penalty...... That kind of mentality is just stupid...... why blow the entire race trying to take someone out?

o well.... i taped it so i can watch it again.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

lol, but it was obvious what kline was doing, he was PISSED. Dirty racing by a few, reminded me of BTCC back a few years ago with Mueller and the rest of the gang playing bumper cars.

 

bad sportsmanship racing but hell it was good to watch.. I think those Neon boys would have had a good talking to by the dodge boys.. A disgrace to dodge! The conduct not the cars..

Lap 1or 2.. Just looked like his fault.. I dunno if i would have done anything different

TC Kline incident.. I would have probably done what he did.. Thinking with emotions instead of logical reasoning..

 

I was in the stands right where that happened, heck I was even on T.V. That was a hell of a crash, its shame that brand new Caddy was destroyed. When I saw the sign Ambulance now at the track I thought he was seriously hurt, fortunate for him he wasn't, but I bet his wallets is hurting from that. From what I heard he has already fixed that car.

 

Scot,

You have to consider that Speed has aired about 12 Run Off races in the past two weeks and I have seen all of them. With the exception of this race, most were very clean races and not indicative of the T2 class battles you saw today.

And just to back up what Gregg said, there is huge prestige and money at stake, though that doesn't excuse the bad driving. The Dodge's are a factory effort. John Fernandez, who drove the other SRT is the head of Dodge SRT division the same as John Heinreicy who won both T1 and GT2 this season (he is head of GM performance road car division). The Caddy's have major develpment from GM.

Most people spend all season getting to the Run Off's. It takes a lot of $$$'s, a lot of time (the Run Offs themselves take up more than a week) and a lot of skill. This leads to close racing, sometimes too close. Also unlike NASA, the racing in EVERY class is very close. Some classes like SRF and FV500 have half the grid seprated by less than 1 second.

No excuse for the bad driving in today's race I and hope the ones involved get a stern lecture. Knowing SCCA it will only happen once before someone is asked to watch form the stands. Unlike NASA, this season where I know of an American Iron driver who had contact in FOUR straight race weekends but only got one DQ.

The classes which usually have the most carnage are the IT based classes such as SSC, SSB, T2, and similar classes.

Regards,

Jon P. Kofod

 

Word.

Although, isn't calling Showroom Stock and Touring "IT based" a little like calling hydrogen and oxygen "water based?"

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TeamSlowdotOrg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Word.

Although, isn't calling Showroom Stock and Touring "IT based" a little like calling hydrogen and oxygen "water based?" </TD></TR></TABLE>

have you seen some of the trunk kits that were available in prior years? coilovers, sway bars, and bushings...IT based.
BTW, isn't this the second or third straight year for Fernandez and "rough" driving penalty?

 

that's some disgusting "racing" there.

and i'm using the term racing loosely.

looks like a buch of soccer hooligans carjacked the race cars and went at it.

 

It was a friendly jab, let's not get into an argument when there is no argument.

Trunk kits are nowhere near things like a real racing suspension (as opposed to a few parts to fix whatever ails the car in question), stripped interiors, portmatched and overbored motors, lightweight clutches, lightweight wheels, et cetera ad nauseum. IT is waaaaay beyond the preparation allowed in Showroom Stock or Touring and therefore saying SS and T1/T2/T3 are based on IT is like saying the earth was based on the atmosphere.

 

Great race, but IMO both Grahovec and Fernandez need to be sidelined for their blatant disregard for other drivers. The first Neon wreck had all the makings of a potentially serious injury to Sandbridge Jr.

 

I knew what Jon meant and his point still stands. "IT-like" classes (e.g., essentially stock bodyshells) do indeed have the highest carnage factor in the SCCA. I've heard entrants say that the reason they "went Production" is because they believe other people are more hesitant to lean on them with fancy fiberglass fenders.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Trunk kits are nowhere near things like a real racing suspension</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'll let Mr. Lucas tell about the KONIs on his trunk-kit Civic (RIP).

K

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by John &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Great race, but IMO both Grahovec and Fernandez need to be sidelined for their blatant disregard for other drivers. The first Neon wreck had all the makings of a potentially serious injury to Sandbridge Jr. </TD></TR></TABLE>

The CTS has 1200ish lbs over the neon. That might have mitigated some of the effects on the driver.

I'm really surprised at TC though. I used to think better of him.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Knestis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I knew what Jon meant and his point still stands. "IT-like" classes (e.g., essentially stock bodyshells) do indeed have the highest carnage factor in the SCCA. I've heard entrants say that the reason they "went Production" is because they believe other people are more hesitant to lean on them with fancy fiberglass fenders.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Perhaps "IT-like" classes do have more carnage than GT-like and Prod-like classes but I think it would be somewhat disingenuous to throw a blanket across all (T1-3, SSB/C, ITE-D) and say they have a higher carnage rate. After all, they have a higher car rate. One could make the argument that SM has the most carnage but I'd bet that its not too abnormal for the number of cars per class per race to have the damage they take on. Not trying to start the poo-fling but did anyone take a count of cars to carnage for say DSR or SRF? They seem to have some boneheaded stuff when the groups get large too.

Are the cheapo tin-tops are more likely to be taking big swings at each other ... well if so, thank G-d for LP leveling the fields of play!

Sorry, its just too bizarre for me to read about the Runoffs and have "IT" cast in a bad light - way too disconnected of concepts for me. Is IT great and perfect? Oh good Lord no, lets just pick on IT when they are actually there LOL And for the record, I have seen little "leaning" in my time. If someone experiences excess of that based on where they run in class, I would think "going Prod" (or elsewhere upstream) would do nothing to correct that. JMO and hate that there can be over a dozen races in a one week period of time and this one becomes the poster child for all that's wrong in the SCCA (Club racing).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by phat-S &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">One could make the argument that SM has the most carnage</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ohh well that's no surprise. SM is also IT-like!

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CivicSiRacer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It comes on again December @ 4am.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thanks. VCR will be set.

 

I wouldn't worry too much about the Sanridge's wallet. They have a full time crew chief for amatuer racing. Grandma's Potato Salad sells very well....