just curious if anyone uses them on here. the only ones i have found are the competition engineering ones:



they do not have provisions for a swaybar, but i think that is nothing a little fabrication can't fix. anyone know of any others?

 

I've heard that these are only suitable for drag racing, not for street. Not legal or advisable road racing

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Track rat &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've heard that these are only suitable for drag racing, not for street. Not legal or advisable road racing</TD></TR></TABLE>
That is exactly what Competition Engineering (Moroso) e-mailed me when I asked them. Worried me enough to stay away.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by edlocke &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That is exactly what Competition Engineering (Moroso) e-mailed me when I asked them. Worried me enough to stay away.</TD></TR></TABLE>


wow, that is enough for me to stay away. thanks guys

 

the probem with those is where the shock fork bolts to the LCA it needs to spin and pivot about 3-4 degree's, it will bind. I figured this out when i tried using delrin and it was binding up the shock and damaging the delrin bushing, Its hard to notice without cycling the suspension.

 

there have been past threads about this and some autox'rs have made positive comments about there use

These were designed by CE by testing them on Moroso's drag car hence the no sway mount's. Looking at them several years ago when they were relesed I was told adding a sway would be a very bad idea.

 

I dont care who designed them, the part where the shock fork bolts to the LCA is welded in place so when you torque the bolt down the fork cant rotate easily and also won't pivot, go put one of these arms on torque the bolt to spec and cycle the suspenion and you will see what I'm talking about,it needs to move on two axis so the clamping problem is'nt the only one. I'm sure it will work fine for a full race drag car with no supenion travel like they were probobly designed for.

 

What if you replaced the solid mount with some form of spherical bearing arrangement?

 

a few pro drag racers broke the original design midrace... then they added that sheetmetal to traingulate the chromoly arms for lateral strength, i would stay away from these even for dragging.

someone should get a cnc machine going for this, aluminum would save like 10-15lbs per side over stock.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jaker &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What if you replaced the solid mount with some form of spherical bearing arrangement?</TD></TR></TABLE>The mounting point is one inch bar with a 1/2 inch hole, no way any spherical is going in there, that section would have to be cut out and refabricated that would be very expensive including the cost of the arms, no thanks, I'll just wait for the L-CON arms to come out. All boxed in, cromoly, tig welded, full spherical and 1/3 of the weight.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by eg6vtec1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'll just wait for the L-CON arms to come out. All boxed in, cromoly, tig welded, full spherical and 1/3 of the weight. </TD></TR></TABLE>

any more info on these, pics maybe?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by euclid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

any more info on these, pics maybe?</TD></TR></TABLE> he is a honda tech member, you could IM him. username L-CON1

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rodney &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">just curious if anyone uses them on here. the only ones i have found are the competition engineering ones:



they do not have provisions for a swaybar, but i think that is nothing a little fabrication can't fix. anyone know of any others? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Still hoping to catch the M3's... Or preparing in advance for what Shenefield is going to unveil?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by honda93 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Still hoping to catch the M3's... Or preparing in advance for what Shenefield is going to unveil?</TD></TR></TABLE>


i think chasing the m3's is a futile effort.... shenefield? yep... he's got me scared. this sucks, i have no $ to invest in car setup. i just gotta deal with it. one day i guess....

 

Put a d15 back in, lose the cf parts, sell off all the R parts, put it in FSP. Look at all the money I just saved you. I too am very interested in seeing how far Shenefield can take his idea.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mohudsolo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Put a d15 back in......</TD></TR></TABLE>

i have an si, so i would need to go to dsp yeah, like i could be competitive there. it's ok. i'll just keep plugging away, the m3's are bound to break sooner or later.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mohudsolo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Put a d15 back in, lose the cf parts, sell off all the R parts, put it in FSP. Look at all the money I just saved you. I too am very interested in seeing how far Shenefield can take his idea.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I mentioned this to some extent in the PAX thread... https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1065782

But then again, driving skill should be able to overcome car setup shortcomings, especially in the hp department (ask me how I know!!!) I mean, how many times have we heard... Autocross is a sport involving/requiring 90% driver, 10% car setup?
Isn't this why PAX was devised? Anyway...

Of the car component, handling and balance is supposedly 90% of the equation there as well. Even Shenefield admits that. Yes, SM is a big power class, and that's why we all admit that unless we all switch to E36 M3's, we fight amongst ourselves.

Then again, I'm not upset doing the B16 swap from a personal standpoint... Done right, the weight gain over the front nose is brought down to a little under 50# from the D15 to the B16. Sure it lacks the power of Rodney's gorgeous B18 or Fessler's monstrous B20, but I remember what I accomplished with a 120hp (on a cool fall day), SOHC, non-VTEC D15. To go from that to running a stock B16 with 40-50 more hp easily, instantly (and with better gearing to boot!)... You see why I am optimistic, even if it is through my own set of rosy-colored glasses.

Anthony "Mario" Crea

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rodney &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


i think chasing the m3's is a futile effort.... shenefield? yep... he's got me scared. this sucks, i have no $ to invest in car setup. i just gotta deal with it. one day i guess....</TD></TR></TABLE>

i got a clean ef shell ill sell ya. cchheeaapp

-spenc

 

In all reality...can the weight savings from these arms be translated into any real time loss on a course?

I asked the same question with my IS300, could I really gain alot (the 2-3 seconds out per course from Nats prepped cars) of time with slightly wider tires and an SAFC...ummm..NO.

So after driving Kevin's EVO (which made me feel like a little girl with pink panties on)....I decided to purchase one myself, after I begged for more co-drives. I will be in ESP most likely next year.

Mario, how's the little one?? Diane and I found out we will be having a little boy come April. We will have to really look into that on-site daycare thing for autox..haha

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by KekeK_5G &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">In all reality...can the weight savings from these arms be translated into any real time loss on a course?

I asked the same question with my IS300, could I really gain alot (the 2-3 seconds out per course from Nats prepped cars) of time with slightly wider tires and an SAFC...ummm..NO.

So after driving Kevin's EVO (which made me feel like a little girl with pink panties on)....I decided to purchase one myself, after I begged for more co-drives. I will be in ESP most likely next year.

Mario, how's the little one?? Diane and I found out we will be having a little boy come April. We will have to really look into that on-site daycare thing for autox..haha</TD></TR></TABLE>

John,

Did you buy an MR, an RS, or a "regular" EVO?

I too yearn for those cars, but Mitsubishi's future is more unstable than Iraqs and Ukraines right now... And I'm not fond of the fact that their big warranty has so many strings attached in the case of the EVO. They are a blast to drive though.

As for baby news, CONGRATULATIONS! Enjoy it, no matter how difficult it may be. Our son is 6 months old today. The time goes by soooo fast. Before you know it, Jake will be walking as he has the beginnings of crawling in him already.

The day care idea is brilliant... Maybe we can branch it out like the Evolution School has. Call it: "Kars, Kones, and Kiddies"

We can use cones and the street tires people change to keep them all contained at the event.

Anthony "Mario" Crea

 

As far as the light weight versus power arguement. The assorted non-M 3 series were moved into DSP a few years ago with no real concern about upsetting the class. Then someone figured out they could run huge tires when the Honda's run into clearance and gearing issues with anything bigger than 225/45/15. The X1/9's have light weight and nimblness but no power and were able to run at the front for years. Now the BMW's and Lexus clone of BMW rule the roost.

It's not just power but also the tire issue. Basically the same thing is happening in SM. The front drive cars, mostly Honda, can't fit a bigger tire and are limited in ability to put down more power if it's added so anything that adds weight when adding power, such as supercharger, can't be compensated by bigger tires. The BMW's are running Z06 size tires while being 300ish lbs lighter. If a tire in the 245-275 range that is less than 23" diameter becomes available, the front drive cars might be able to compete using power adders. Without the bigger tires, lightness is the only viable direction.

As far as driving skill making a difference, have you ever seen Tunnel or any of the other front runners drive? Driving skill might get tenths, probably only hundredths, not the full seconds that are needed.

 

Mario,
I bought a used 2003 GSR (regular), couldn't take the depreciation hit again. I really had so much fun driving Kevin's that I figured now is the time before the baby comes. Whatever car is in the garage at that time is gonna stay for awhile. As for Mitsu's future, there is a good pool of these cars nationally and internationally, so parts should always be available.

Sorry Chris, this is a little OT.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mohudsolo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If a tire in the 245-275 range that is less than 23" diameter becomes available, the front drive cars might be able to compete using power adders. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Hey Hoosier, if you're listening, 265/30-17 would be great. About 23.2" diameter. Barring that, Race Logic will help immensely for us FWDers that can keep all 4 wheels on the ground.

 

We ALL need to contact the tire manufacturers directly. If enough people do this and they perceive a marketing opportunity they will make the tires we need. The guys in CP have done this a number of times, successfully. As far as SM is concerned, power and driving are not whats holding the front drivers back, lack of tire is!