I want a gas welder for doing beginner stuff on mild steel. Where would I get the best price on both tanks, all the regulators and hose, striker/goggles torches I would need? Just browsing Ebay I could probably peace it together for like 275 bux plus the cost of filling the tanks. Anyway to get cheaper then that?

 

http://www.harborfreight.com/c...=3395

 

I don't think oxy/acetylene would be a good platform at all.

I'd pick up a cheap, used stick welder.

 

oxy/acetylene is way more useful then stick. Its more universal, good for mild steel (thats why exhaust shops use it) and according to my aviation airframe book at one point it was primarily used for the construction of aircraft frames. stick welding is for big construction stuff. Ive tried it. Oxy/acetalyne is MUCH cleaner, and a good welder for beginners that could be used for many things.

 

They used to use flint to start fires too...but I'm sure you'd prefer a butane lighter wouldn't you?

Oxy-acetylene welding is simply an outdated thing. It's more costly than stick or mig, not to mention slower and even more difficult for a beginner. I have NEVER done it on any job I've worked on. The only time I ever did it was in high school, where I learned that it sucked. Sure, I could probably pick it up now, since I've got a lot more welding behind me... but I know it's not going to beat out mig or stick.

As for exhaust shops using it... huh? They use acetylene and oxygen to cut sometimes, but I have never seen them use it to weld...they prefer mig because it's faster and easier.

For a beginner, I'd suggest a Hobart Handler 175. It may run you about $400-500, but no matter how good you get or how much experience you get in the future, it will ALWAYS have a place in your shop. It is the absolute best welding machine you can have for auto body work. A HH175 and some flux core and you've got the best auto body machine you can buy. Yes, I'd pick it over a brand new Miller Dynasty, if I was doing auto body work.

In other words, if you buy junk, you will outgrow it and regret buying it, and will get rid of it. If you buy a HH175, you will probably buy a better machine in the future and keep this one too.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Engloid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">They used to use flint to start fires too...but I'm sure you'd prefer a butane lighter wouldn't you?

Oxy-acetylene welding is simply an outdated thing. It's more costly than stick or mig, not to mention slower and even more difficult for a beginner. I have NEVER done it on any job I've worked on. The only time I ever did it was in high school, where I learned that it sucked. Sure, I could probably pick it up now, since I've got a lot more welding behind me... but I know it's not going to beat out mig or stick.

As for exhaust shops using it... huh? They use acetylene and oxygen to cut sometimes, but I have never seen them use it to weld...they prefer mig because it's faster and easier.

For a beginner, I'd suggest a Hobart Handler 175. It may run you about $400-500, but no matter how good you get or how much experience you get in the future, it will ALWAYS have a place in your shop. It is the absolute best welding machine you can have for auto body work. A HH175 and some flux core and you've got the best auto body machine you can buy. Yes, I'd pick it over a brand new Miller Dynasty, if I was doing auto body work.

In other words, if you buy junk, you will outgrow it and regret buying it, and will get rid of it. If you buy a HH175, you will probably buy a better machine in the future and keep this one too.</TD></TR></TABLE>

agree...although oxy/acetylene welding will help develop the skills you need to tig, i could always weld very well with oxy/acetylene and when i finally got the opportunity to tig weld it came VERY easy to me.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mpir3 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">agree...although oxy/acetylene welding will help develop the skills you need to tig, i could always weld very well with oxy/acetylene and when i finally got the opportunity to tig weld it came VERY easy to me. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I can see the logic there, but I wouldn't reccomend it as a first step because the "cost-effectiveness" is not going to be good, figuring that when you do go to tig, you will never again want or need to use the oxy-acetylene to weld with. So in that respect, it will be a skill developed...and then not used.

 

ok back up guys. The guy said stick welding, not MIG or TIG. youre arguing as if i said oxy is betterr then mig/tig, which is clearly false.I like oxy/acetylyne, I can lay down some clean beads with it. In the future im definitely geting TIG.

 

BTW, anytime youre dealing with aviation there are walls and walls of standards and bearuecraticly established requires. So if youre comparing oxy welding to using flint to start a fire you should rethink. The FAA has never and will never allow inferior methods of production or repair. anyone familiar with fixing airplanes will tell you that, including me, since Ive been in the AMP program for a year now. Theres a whole class just on fasteners. If oxy welding as you implied produced inferior welds then the FAA would not allow it within 100 feet of an airplane. And im not planing on taking an oxy welder to any profesional level, this is simply for developing skill that will help me in the future with my TIG welding, which i still have to take classes for. M Aybe you just really sucked at it in high school, like so many other people in my airframe class do.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mentat Ghola &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">BTW, anytime youre dealing with aviation there are walls and walls of standards and bearuecraticly established requires. So if youre comparing oxy welding to using flint to start a fire you should rethink. The FAA has never and will never allow inferior methods of production or repair. anyone familiar with fixing airplanes will tell you that, including me, since Ive been in the AMP program for a year now. Theres a whole class just on fasteners. If oxy welding as you implied produced inferior welds then the FAA would not allow it within 100 feet of an airplane. And im not planing on taking an oxy welder to any profesional level, this is simply for developing skill that will help me in the future with my TIG welding, which i still have to take classes for. M Aybe you just really sucked at it in high school, like so many other people in my airframe class do. </TD></TR></TABLE>

have you seen his welds? i doubt he sucked at it

I learned with gas welding, but other than for cutting purposes i would NEVER weld another thing with the torches..

 

Welding with torches kicks ***. for warpage!

My suggest is spend $300 at the local tech school on a welding class and play with their machines. You will get experiance in torch welding and cutting, stick, mig, and tig. Then from there you can make your decision which you want to buy and you will be able to buy it as an informed buyer vs just someone getting advice on the internet. Most likely you will realize TIG is the way to go and be like me trying to figure out if you can really afford a TIG welder for a hobbiest.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fatvat &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Welding with torches kicks ***. for warpage!

My suggest is spend $300 at the local tech school on a welding class and play with their machines. You will get experiance in torch welding and cutting, stick, mig, and tig. Then from there you can make your decision which you want to buy and you will be able to buy it as an informed buyer vs just someone getting advice on the internet. Most likely you will realize TIG is the way to go and be like me trying to figure out if you can really afford a TIG welder for a hobbiest.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i'm in exactly the same boat as you. i would love to have a TIG but i cant really justify spending the money for just a hobby. so i am looking at something like the econotig or tigmate. but definitely do like he said and take some classes if youve never done it before. thats what i did and i'm glad i did. you can use their metal, their wire, their gas, their machines, and everything else. then decide when you have some knowledge of everything. then come on here and ask the further details when you actually know a little about each

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fatvat &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Welding with torches kicks ***. for warpage!

My suggest is spend $300 at the local tech school on a welding class and play with their machines. You will get experiance in torch welding and cutting, stick, mig, and tig. Then from there you can make your decision which you want to buy and you will be able to buy it as an informed buyer vs just someone getting advice on the internet. Most likely you will realize TIG is the way to go and be like me trying to figure out if you can really afford a TIG welder for a hobbiest.</TD></TR></TABLE>

lol. I do realize that TIG is the way to go. Heres the whole story, im switching majors from AMP to welder. So spring semester ill be starting my welding classes. First the oxy/arc welding classes, then after 8 weeks i can take the MIG.TIG orbital classes. And because i was in the airframe class i got a chance to play around with the welders, including making butt joints and T joints as well as brazing. So i know how a gas welder can perform. and i DEFINITELY WILL get a TIG welder, maybe even a MIG also so i can have all the different welders and be proficient in all of them. Anyway, I was thinking a gas welder would be a fun little beginers welder, so i can mess around with steel and get my beads cleaner before next semester starts. Oh, and the exhaust shops that ive been in have all used gas welders.

 

I just don't understand the logic behind 8 weeks of oxy/acetylene welding as a first step in learning a trade in which you will not use oxy/acetylene for welding. I took some of this in high school, probably about 2 weeks of it...and it DID NOT help me a bit. I have NEVER done it on any job I've ever worked on. And no, I didn't suck at it, at least compared to the other guys in the class. I took welding for my last 1.5yrs of high school, and passed up everybody that had it for a total of 3 years.

Schools that keep you doing that have one thing in mind: YOUR MONEY. They want all of your money that they can get. Hey, if they can jerk a thousand out of your wallet in the early stages, and you bail out, you're going to get nowhere in the field..but they got your money. If you want to get somewhere, you have to go through their BS courses to get to the ones that will actually help you in the long run.

Sure, I agree that you need to be versatile in today's work world...but when you were in elementary school, did they have you do math on an abbacus for the first 3 years? It's simply a waste of time. Honestly, I've trained many welders, and I can tell you that I could take any one of you for 1-4 weeks and have you trained and certified on aluminum plate in any position you want. There's no reason to take oxy/acet welding for 8 weeks. Think about it...the schools are there to make money. If they really wanted the best for you, they'd have better teachers. There may be a good one here or there, but most of the teachers I've met will hide in their office and complain that their eyes aren't as good as they used to be. ...when in fact, they probably just weren't ever as good as they want you to believe they were.

I've welded things for NASA that went on space shuttles, in aircraft carriers and more. Not only that, but I have developed Procedure Qualification Reports, Weld Procedure Specifications, and administered the testing of welders, giving them the proper Welder Performance Records (certifications). Sounds good, huh? It's not all that hard really, but you've just got to have the qualifications to do it. The fact that something is used on an airplane doesn't necessarily mean that it's the best thing to do. I'm sure some of the procedures they use are 40+ years old and are in fact inferior to today's welding technology. Go look up their PQR's and I'd bet they are pretty old.

As for exhaust shops using oxy/acetylene welding...I have NEVER seen it, and the shops that want to use it for exhaust piping, they are simply stupid for doing it. It is slower, more expensive, and more dangerous than mig. Think about it...would you rather have a small mig gun, or an open flaming torch near the gas tank of your car? I dunno, maybe your definition of a "gas welder" isn't correct.

Also, if I had to bet on it, I'd have to bet that a tig weld would be stronger than an oxy/acet weld. I know it doesn't matter on exhaust piping though.

 

i wish i could take TIG right off the line, but welding 100 (gas/arc) is a required prerequisite, so i really have no choice. Atleast at orange coast college it is. And i would think our program is pretty good since we are a welding qualified testing site. The reason they make you wait 8 weeks is assuming most people are beginers they need to ascertain the safety procedures around the shop and basic principles that are involved.

 

None of you guys ever raced motorcycles.Every 2 cycle pipe I have ever seen was gas welded.And they still are.When you build A pipe there is nothing faster
than gas torch,For tacking and welding both.I would say 90% of the mild steel
header builders still use gas.I worked at HOOKER HEADERS in 1976 and every
header that left that place right up till now is gas welded.Engloid should know
that ammonia refrigeration systems,like ice skating rinks are still gas welded.But the best thing about oxy-acet. torches is acetylene bombs .You have never heard
A boom like a balloon full of oxy-acet.Just A small balloon is louder than any M200
or sonic boom you have ever heard in your life and I'm not bullshitting.Just watch out for static electricity.Well since i told you about it, I better tell you how to be safe.If you want to know PM me

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RMF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">None of you guys ever raced motorcycles.Every 2 cycle pipe I have ever seen was gas welded.And they still are.When you build A pipe there is nothing faster
than gas torch,For tacking and welding both.I would say 90% of the mild steel
header builders still use gas.I worked at HOOKER HEADERS in 1976 and every
header that left that place right up till now is gas welded.Engloid should know
that ammonia refrigeration systems,like ice skating rinks are still gas welded.But the best thing about oxy-acet. torches is acetylene bombs .You have never heard
A boom like a balloon full of oxy-acet.Just A small balloon is louder than any M200
or sonic boom you have ever heard in your life and I'm not bullshitting.Just watch out for static electricity.Well since i told you about it, I better tell you how to be safe.If you want to know PM me</TD></TR></TABLE>

LOL, sounds crazy

 

I learned with a gas torch and I still love mine. I still weld with it occasionally, but it is sooo useful to heat **** up. Rusty exhaust work is not really a problem any more. Also great for burning stuff off (like the sealant on my RX-7's motor mount bolts).

I have a Miller TIG/stick machine, but I can't really use it under a car.

It's nice that you can gas weld with just a pair of glasses, too. Wearing a helmet while under the car (when I had my MIG) was a pain in the ***.

Sonny

 

Don't fool yourself..it's all about the money. When I went to welding school, it was a 6 month course. I completed it in 5 months, after which I began my first welding job as a journeyman pipe welder...and that was with ASME certifications, not the crappy AWS ones. Most schools just want your money. The longer you're there, the more money they make. If you're going to go through a 2+ year course, go ahead and go to college where you will have more potential for earning in the future. I hate to be blunt, but I'm thinking maybe you are confused somehow. I have a 2 stroke motorcycle myself. The pipe on it and every one I've ever seen was welded with either mig or tig. Maybe you and others here are using the term "gas welding" improperly. We are talking about oxygen and acetylene welding, not mig or tig...both of which usually use gas. (mig sometimes will be flux cored and not need any gas.) Further, to say that oxy/acetylene welding is faster than mig or tig is simply not true, unless you are comparing 2 people with vastly differing amonts of experience. If it was faster, there would be a lot more of it going on. It's simply a thing of the past.
Keep in mind that 1976 was nearly 30 years ago.
I've never worked on them, but in much of the refridgeration work I've done, we did use oxy/acetylene, but the process was brazing with the usage of silver (various percentages) for filler.
You got that right!! If anybody decides to play with this, DO NOT start with anything even the size of a coke bottle. If you try a bag from a loaf of bread, it may cause hearing damage, things can fall off shelves, and tiles from your ceiling may not stay there. Do NOT take a balloon and fill it up, just make it smaller than your fist, and you will get a taste of how powerful it is. Stand back and don't hold a lighter to it or it could even damage your hand when it blows up.
They can be useful, but I don't think they're much for teaching you how to weld with mig or stick.
Practice

 

Engloid
You are 100% right on everything you said
I think the advent of plasma was the final nail. 8 hour cutting jobs became 10 min jobs. The silver and bronze tig rod have taken up a lot of the sweating jobs.
only reason to have one is for heating parts.
I too have taught a lot of high school kids to tig and never taught gas welding,after 8 weeks of tig 6 hours a day they were pretty damn good welders.
your right about the schools just want $$$$$

 

Your not serious .The only pipes that are not gas welded are the stock piece of ****
And if you would read my reply it says 1976 untill NOW.Do your self a favor and call up a company that makes after market MX pipes and I will bet you $100 they tell you they gas weld them There is a place in N.calif. called Factory pipe.Or there
has to be a place around you.And about the headers Your telling a guy that's been welding headers for 30 sum years that people don't gas weld headers.Here
Davis headers Ontario,calif
Smileys headers Cucamonga,calif.(yes there is a cucamonga)Or ask Casey from Burns He knows most of the header builders use gas torches.You come on here looking for praise ,Well I'm not impressed.Your just doing your job.Your supposed
to be able to weld like that.There is millions of people that can weld as good or better.It just looks like you sit back and watch your welding pics all day and pat yourself on the back Before you start telling kids what they want get your facts straight

 

i think some of you guys are thinking when you say gas welding..you are including mig and tig thats used gas.
ANd the other half when they say "gas" they are just meaning oxy acet.....
After reading this, i think you are all confused on what each other is saying..

 

I guess I'm gonna have to break open the can and get a little brutal with you on this...

You're obviously clueless as to the fact that there is no type of welding that is PROPERLY TERMED GAS WELDING. Therefore, I really can only guess what the **** you're talking about. Since I've tried already to explain this to you, and you seem to think that oxy/acetylene welding is "gas welding", I'll assume that and go from there.
Yeah, I'm serious...and I'm right about this. I'm sure you've heard of ProCircuit..one of the biggest names in AFTERMARKET PERFORMANCE exhaust pipes. Check this pic: http://store6.yimg.com/I/motox...01688
Wow!! that's a TIG weld!!! Ok...you're wrong #1.
http://www.ferracci.com/2002fe...0.jpg
Hmmm...that one isn't welded with Oxy/acetylene either. Wrong #2.
A Slechter pipe below:
http://www.ferracci.com/2002fe...0.jpg
Wrong #3. Below is another...clearly TIG welded:
http://www.ferracci.com/2002fe...0.jpg
Oh, so they just stopped today? I guess you just want to argue with me no matter what I say.
Don't need to, I got pics. Below is a pic of a guy TIG WELDING AN EXHAUST!!!

LOOKS LIKE YOU OWE ME $100. YOU CAN PAYPAL IT TO ME: ENGLOIDatCOMCAST.NET Pay up, or forever be known for talking trash and not backing it up.

The above pic was found herehttp://www.jlexhaustsusa.com/jl-usa-gallery.htm
I have met guys that have welded for longer than that, but didn't even know how to use a pulse to weld..or could only weld one ot two metals. Time may aid in gaining experience, knowledge, or skill..but it doesn't automatically equate to it. You can weld them with bubble gum for all I care. That's you, it doesn't mean it's the best or fastest way to do something.
Ok, so it's my job. I am likely in the top 5% nationwide as far as my skill level in my trade. That most likely won't mean that there's millions that can weld better than I can. I wonder where you would stand in yours...and if you can prove it as I have. I posted pics and you type trash....and you think you will establish some sort of respect here? I'll challenge you to find even 10. Please, do this. If this is true, I'd love to learn some tips and tricks from them.
Please, follow your own advice. The above has proven that it will do you some good and save others, that are new in welding, from having to sort your statements from those that are factual. Please take yourself elsewhere and find something productive to do.

 

engloid 1, rmf 0.

the h-t *** kicking of the year.

 

OK here we go
Well I don't know where you have been caged up at. But since high school everyone I have ever heard says GAS weld.I would have to guess probably
every welder ,fab guy on the west coast would know what GAS welding is.

I'm glad you brought up ProCircuit.Used to make pipes for Mitch.I have known
Mitch since before the wheel chair.And sorry the first two pipes with no seems
were GAS welded.Yes they heliarc most of the stamped pipes.But none of the cone pipes.They are GAS welded.Why don't you call him up and ask him if they GAS weld any pipes.And say GAS weld so he knows what your talking about.
Wrong ? I think not.

OK when someone says ,From a certain time until now.Doesn't mean that it stopped .It means what it says.Now the present.Next time someone asks A question like ,How long have you been telling this guy he doesn' know what he's talking about,I will say from yesterday until, who knows because if i say now it means i quit. And I know that's not right.And what does I just want to argue with you mean.What does that have to do with saying NOW?

And like I said call them up and find out that your WRONG.Big deal you have a picture of someone welding with a heliarc.That doesn't mean they don't GAS weld
anything.And when you call up a pipe guy and he says Gas weld ? What the hell is that.We heliarc all our cone pipes.Then I will gladly pay you the money.But i don't think its gonna happen.

Talking about GAS welding headers.I said most of the mild steel header builders
still GAS weld them.I my self don't weld headers with a GAS torch.Because it gets
to hot.But you can put a dinky little bead on em,With a 000 tip. Well not you but you know what i mean.And how can you compare gum with GAS welding.I didn't
ask if anybody welds with bubble gum ,I said GAS weld.

OH this is good....OK I'm finally gonna say it YOU DUMB *** .you haven't got a clue about my back ground.I cant even begin to think of all the different metals
I have welded.But just to make a point.I will dig up some stuff.Whats this **** about prove it like i have. YOU HAVE NT PROVED ****.You have proven that
you can make up certificates on your printer,You have proved that you know
how to post pics on HT,You have proved to me you don't know as much as you think.But prove that you can weld NO.Seeing is believing.When i see it with my own eyes then maybe Anybody can get on here and be what ever they want.Just like YOU.You said do something productive.Who's looking for a job? Not me.

And I stand behind what I said before:Get your facts straight
In closing: anytime you want a lesson come to PHX
The bottom line is open your eyes there is more going on than you think.
Never say NO body doing something if you don't know for a fact
Now you can argue with your self .because I'm done