http://www.scca-chicago.com/so....html

Also, some 04-05 differences based on a 50sec. course. Credit goes to Jeff C.

RTP 2005 2004 Diff 2005 2004 Diff

SS 0.837 0.836 0.001 41.850 41.800 0.050
AS 0.828 0.828 0 41.400 41.400 0.000
BS 0.821 0.826 -0.005 41.050 41.300 -0.250
CS 0.810 0.811 -0.001 40.500 40.550 -0.050
DS 0.796 0.794 0.002 39.800 39.700 0.100
ES 0.806 0.804 0.002 40.300 40.200 0.100
FS 0.805 0.803 0.002 40.250 40.150 0.100
GS 0.782 0.781 0.001 39.100 39.050 0.050
HS 0.777 0.776 0.001 38.850 38.800 0.050
ASP 0.850 0.848 0.002 42.500 42.400 0.100
BSP 0.839 0.839 0 41.950 41.950 0.000
CSP 0.838 0.837 0.001 41.900 41.850 0.050
DSP 0.822 0.819 0.003 41.100 40.950 0.150
ESP 0.826 0.824 0.002 41.300 41.200 0.100
FSP 0.811 0.813 -0.002 40.550 40.650 -0.100
STS 0.799 0.791 0.008 39.950 39.550 0.400
STS2 0.803 0.819 -0.007 40.150 40.500 -0.350
STX 0.802 0.795 0.007 40.100 39.750 0.350
STU 0.818 0.827 -0.009 40.900 41.350 -0.450
SM 0.842 0.838 0.004 42.100 41.900 0.200
SM2 0.852 0.849 0.003 42.600 42.450 0.150
AP 0.865 0.868 -0.003 43.250 43.400 -0.150
BP 0.861 0.863 -0.002 43.050 43.150 -0.100
CP 0.855 0.854 0.001 42.750 42.700 0.050
DP 0.844 0.844 0 42.200 42.200 0.000
EP 0.858 0.861 -0.003 42.900 43.050 -0.150
FP 0.862 0.862 0 43.100 43.100 0.000
AM 1 1 0 50.000 50.000 0.000
BM 0.942 0.945 -0.003 47.100 47.250 -0.150
CM 0.908 0.913 -0.005 45.400 45.650 -0.250
DM 0.879 0.886 -0.007 43.950 44.300 -0.350
EM 0.886 0.894 -0.008 44.300 44.700 -0.400
FM 0.884 0.889 -0.005 44.200 44.450 -0.250
FSAE 0.948 0.969 -0.012 47.400 48.000 -0.600
F125 0.939 0.938 0.001 46.950 46.900 0.050
FJ1 0.781 0.785 -0.004 39.050 39.250 -0.200
FJ2 0.797 0.792 0.005 39.850 39.600 0.250
FJ3 0.823 0.825 -0.002 41.150 41.250 -0.100
FJ4 0.832 0.834 -0.002 41.600 41.700 -0.100

 

PAX blows

 

STS2 down to 0.803 from 0.819, and STS up to 0.799 from 0.791, w00t for me

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slowhtwgn &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
SM 0.842 0.838 0.004 42.100 41.900 0.200
</TD></TR></TABLE>

damn, higher and higher.... at this rate, soon SM will have the same pax as AM

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rodney &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

damn, higher and higher.... at this rate, soon SM will have the same pax as AM </TD></TR></TABLE>


At least now it's higher than BSP, especially when a totally prepped BSP car, when given a supercharger, went to an *EASIER* pax class.

 

That and STS/STX took it up the @ss in a big way. We better hope for those miracle sticky street tires now...

 

You already have miracle sticky street tires! If Azenis are really a treadwear of 140 (which theoretically means they last 140% of the miles of the average Falken tire) then I am Michael Schumacher.

-alan

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00R101 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You already have miracle sticky street tires! If Azenis are really a treadwear of 140 (which theoretically means they last 140% of the miles of the average Falken tire) then I am Michael Schumacher.

-alan</TD></TR></TABLE>

Please drive a set of Azenis then a set of Hoosiers back-to-back on the same car. There is a huge difference no matter what some seem to think.

While the Azenis is better than every other street tire out there in terms of lateral grip, it is still a long way off a set of real R compounds. Especially on concrete.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slowhtwgn &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">http://www.scca-chicago.com/so....html

Also, some 04-05 differences based on a 50sec. course. Credit goes to Jeff C.

FSP 0.811 (-0.002)
STS 0.799 (+0.008)</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not that I regret going to SM by any means. Doing the whole B16 swap made things interesting again, but had I had any idea this was going to happen, a thorough rebuild/tuning of the D15B7 and Hoosiers/Keizers would have been in my future instead! Hoosiers and a freshened motor on a long enough (over 45-50 seconds) course would make up enough time to overcome that PAX difference between the 2 classes.

It is clear, however, that the day of STS dominating PAX is drawing to a close... Unless the event takes place in March or November (here in the Northeast at least!)

As for SM, three simple reasons why it has gotten so much harder for 2005...

1. Sias
2. Tunnell
3. Reitmier

Anthony "Mario" Crea

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by honda93 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

1. Sias
2. Tunnell
3. Reitmier

Anthony "Mario" Crea</TD></TR></TABLE>

Scary to think how much more they could all do to their cars....

 

Fun to think what we can do to a Honda to beat them

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by clemsonhatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Fun to think what we can do to a Honda to beat them </TD></TR></TABLE>

If you plan on beating those three...espically Tunnel, you better work harder on th driver than the car.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00R101 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You already have miracle sticky street tires! If Azenis are really a treadwear of 140 (which theoretically means they last 140% of the miles of the average Falken tire) then I am Michael Schumacher.

-alan</TD></TR></TABLE>

Alan, better file the paperwork then to change your name.... becuase they're REALLY a treadwear of 200.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Solracer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

If you plan on beating those three...espically Tunnel, you better work harder on th driver than the car.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I live to drive Plenty of seat time in the works! A car can only go so fast so at certain point you have to make the car faster, especially to play with those guys.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by clemsonhatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I live to drive Plenty of seat time in the works! A car can only go so fast so at certain point you have to make the car faster, especially to play with those guys.</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's gonna take one hell of a honda, and one hell of a driver to get anywhere near those guys. That can easily be seen by the **** kicking we took this year. I just can't wait for the asphault site we're suppose to get in the next two years.

 

Plus was the engine in Sias' car a race spec engine? Now this is just hear-say but I heard the engine alone was $50,000-60,000. That's nuts!

And I watched Sias run the north course and south course and he was just smooth and fast. I was amazed how he drove the BMW.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CivicSiRacer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Plus was the engine in Sias' car a race spec engine? Now this is just hear-say but I heard the engine alone was $50,000-60,000. That's nuts!

And I watched Sias run the north course and south course and he was just smooth and fast. I was amazed how he drove the BMW.</TD></TR></TABLE>

From what I hear it's a mostly stock S54(E46 M3 engine) running on a TEC3. He *might* have cams in it(which are so $$$ it's not even funny, and don't even gain much), but from what I heard he never opened it up.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Def &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">From what I hear it's a mostly stock S54(E46 M3 engine) running on a TEC3. He *might* have cams in it(which are so $$$ it's not even funny, and don't even gain much), but from what I heard he never opened it up.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I found this...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...=WDVW

A long shot find given the topic at hand, and its price seems suspicious even though the guy says he is going to a V12 instead... But still, $9,000 for such a magnificient piece of engineering? Granted, no trans, but I'm sure that's "cheap" as it is a standard 6 speed; nothing special relatively speaking.

Then again, Sias' business must have a phone, someone local call him. Or, at some point in time, GRM will feature his car. Unless all those guys lie, that write up will (should) reveal what we seek.

Anthony "Mario" Crea

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CivicSiRacer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Plus was the engine in Sias' car a race spec engine? Now this is just hear-say but I heard the engine alone was $50,000-60,000. That's nuts!

</TD></TR></TABLE>Hearsay is a funny thing, isn't it? I heard the car you drove was shooting monkeys out the exhaust. That's nuts!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TeamSlowdotOrg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hearsay is a funny thing, isn't it? I heard the car you drove was shooting monkeys out the exhaust. That's nuts! </TD></TR></TABLE>

Quick, sic PETA on him!

 

Yes yes believe it or not. This is what I heard while I was watching his runs from a couple of people in the spectator area at Nationals.

Which is why I said "hear-say" since I know some of you wear tight panties.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Todd00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Please drive a set of Azenis then a set of Hoosiers back-to-back on the same car. There is a huge difference no matter what some seem to think.

While the Azenis is better than every other street tire out there in terms of lateral grip, it is still a long way off a set of real R compounds. Especially on concrete.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Todd,

I know there is a huge difference. It's just not as huge a difference as there is between the Hoosier and almost any other street tire (say a Bridgestone S03 or a Michelin Pilot Sport or a Dunlop SP Sport 9000 or an Avon Tech m500 or a Yoko ES100). What I am trying to say is that STS was originally conceived as a true street tire class. The Azenis stretches the limit of the meaning of true street tire.

I think most people would say you would be very lucky to get 20,000 miles out of the Falken tire on purely street driving. A treadwear rating of 100 is supposed to be the average life of Falken's average tire. I suspect that the average tire in the Falken inventory gets far better than 20,000 miles. Therefore the treadwear rating on the Azenis of 200 is a bald faced lie (which is legal only because the rules on treadwear ratings allow the manufacturer to put whatever they want on the sidewall).

If we compare the Azenis to the Bridgestone RE010 (which is the OEM tire on the Type R and has a treadwear rating of 140) what do we find? The Azenis is far stickier. If Hoosier was smart they would come out with an STS tire (just put a little tread on the S04 and give it a treadwear rating of 140 - all perfectly legal by the way) They would then become the spec tire for STS just as the Azenis is now.

Dennis Grant predicted a long time ago that the slipperiness of the treadwear rule would be bad for STS. The change in PAX reflects that.

regards,
alan

 

Yes, but DG has other motives IMO for predicting the demise of the ST classes.

The RE010, which was the stock ITR tire, usually sees about 20K miles. Remember the tires on the early NSX? They only saw 5-8K miles. Same goes for other Hi-po tires dating back to the 80s'. None were as sticky as the Falken, but why are folks complaining about a cheap tire in enough sizes that has good stick? The azenis could really last 15-20K if you drove them like a normal person.

What you are seeing is an evolution of street tires. Folks are going to buy the sticky tires over others and OEMs are recognizing this. I'm not complaining, that's for sure.

If Hoosier or someone were to stamp a R compound 150 treadwear, they could easily be put on the exclusion list.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">DM 0.879 0.886 -0.007 43.950 44.300 -0.350
EM 0.886 0.894 -0.008 44.300 44.700 -0.400</TD></TR></TABLE>

oooh, two classes i run. EM locally, DM at national events... about time we get a better chance.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00R101 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I know there is a huge difference. It's just not as huge a difference as there is between the Hoosier and almost any other street tire (say a Bridgestone S03 or a Michelin Pilot Sport or a Dunlop SP Sport 9000 or an Avon Tech m500 or a Yoko ES100). What I am trying to say is that STS was originally conceived as a true street tire class. The Azenis stretches the limit of the meaning of true street tire.

I think most people would say you would be very lucky to get 20,000 miles out of the Falken tire on purely street driving. A treadwear rating of 100 is supposed to be the average life of Falken's average tire. I suspect that the average tire in the Falken inventory gets far better than 20,000 miles. Therefore the treadwear rating on the Azenis of 200 is a bald faced lie (which is legal only because the rules on treadwear ratings allow the manufacturer to put whatever they want on the sidewall). </TD></TR></TABLE>

Two points:

1) The regular street tires (Michelin Pilot MXX3) that came OE on my BMW Z3 wore out in 10,000 miles. And that was totally street miles.

High performance tires have come a long way. The Azenis is not alone at the top of the heap. What, you thought people would just bolt on *any* street tire and not the best they could find?

2) Your impression of how the UTQG ratings works is incorrect. As a member of the SEB and liason to the STAC, I have a copy of a report from the Tire Rack which describes the actual test procedure that yields this result. In short, there really is a spec tire (made by either Uniroyal or Cooper, I believe) which represents the 100 tread wear rating. Any new tire is run against it on a specific test circuit here in TX to determine the relative wear rating. Tires are run for 7200 miles to determine wear, which is then extrapolated based on remaining tread depth.

Yes, there is some subjectivity in the rating due to the necessary extrapolation. Whose to say whether the second 50% of tread will wear at the same rate as the first (usually it wears slower). So some "art" is used to factor that in. Not just pure science.

Bottom-line is that the UTQG rating is not, as you suggest, relative in some direct way to the other tires that Falken makes.

Hope that helps,

--Andy