Ok, I'm going to make this quick because I'm in the middle of a movie.

Here's my setup:

94 Si hatch
-no rear seats/spare, etc
-AP 4 pt race bar
-Buddy Club RS with 500 fr 550rr ERS
-GSR front sway
-Benen rear STB
-swayless in the rear for now(had GSR rear, but gave to my brother)
-allignment at stock settings , -1.9* front camber, -1* rear, ride height equal, tire prssure usually 32-36 front and 30-34 rear on 205-50-15 Victoracers

Now, this isn't an extreme setup by any means, it should handle quite neutral, and it does so...very nicely. BUT, the past few times I've been on the track, my rear end comes out like there's no tomorrow. Now, it's not all the time, but at unexpected moments. I'll be 3/4 throttle through a turn, and I just go into a drift. Not a 4 wheel drift, but the rear just rotates too much somtimes.

Even on the street- I drive the speed limit everywhere, but I just feel it wanting to get out. I feel it may be a lack of grip in the rear. Pretty much any body movement- or lack thereof, results in lifting the inside rear, and maybe just that one tire- although R compound, Azenis, or even stock Firestone rubber, just can't handle G's.

Maybe my suspension setup is too stiff for the tires I'm on, and I'm pushing it past its limits....I'm not sure.

But usually, most of you hatchback, and most FF cars period, get RID of the front sway to help induce oversteer- yet I have a GSR on the front and no rear.

Another thing....taking highspeed sloloms- no problem. The 2nd to last event I attended at Spokane Raceway Park, had a 80 foot slolom(about) with I think 5 or 6 cones. I was able to roll through there about 45-55 mph, where most were only around 35-45. I dunno, just looking for others' advise

What I mean is, I know it's not necessarily my driving style, because I know my car inside and out- driving 800 miles a week as it sits for the past 3 months.

Maybe adjust rear dampers to have more droop? This might keep some weight on the inside rear , I dunno


Modified by Emerika at 9:21 PM 11/21/2004

 

what the hell is "slomom" do u mean slalom?

 

I had to turn the firmness on my Konis almost all the way down in back to get the car to settle down and it handles pretty 'perfect' for the middle-of-the-road set-up I have.

My car doesn't do any of that weird **** and I have a 22mm rear bar.

 

hmm...i run 600f/800r on ss konis and itr rear sway on my race kar and have understeer issues...:shrugs:

 

I ran this setup, with the addition of a 22mm rear sway and I felt that the car was pretty neutral. With only a few exceptions, I had to noticably lift to get rotation.

I would re-check your rear toe settings, the torque on all your suspension bolts, and inspect your bushings.

Either something is amiss or you're especially sensitive to slight oversteer.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JeffS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I ran this setup, with the addition of a 22mm rear sway and I felt that the car was pretty neutral. With only a few exceptions, I had to noticably lift to get rotation.

I would re-check your rear toe settings, the torque on all your suspension bolts, and inspect your bushings.

Either something is amiss or you're especially sensitive to slight oversteer.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I do an allignemtn on my car once a month, even with no changes to suspension. Everything is up to par...I'm a tech at Honda and am SUPER picky about the mechanical aspects of my car...

I dunno, maybe I'm just a Nancy boy. I'll let Skye drive it and see what he says

 

You have a giant front bar, no rear bar, and no huge relative difference in f/r spring rate. IMO, your car should push.. horribly. Check your alignment again and hopefully you'll see something there. Otherwise, check the things you'd normally check if it was a customer car.

 

Well, thats the thing, everything is cool, and without a rear bar, I would expect it to stay neutral/understeer.

It's not like it's scary to drive- it just seems to kick out more than it should. ANd I'm not talking about lifting mid corner or tail braking.... I was ready to go with a Comptech rear setup....hmm.

And another thing. Before, running Yellows with 400 front 500 rear, a bigger difference in rates, my car was way more neutral. .

I blame the lack of grip to the outer rear wheel still

 

if alignment is to spec, i'd suggest looking over the suspension hardware.

bent arms? sheared bolts? everything tight?

i broke an anchor bolt at an auto-x that held my RR upper control arm to the frame and the car was loose as all hell, as you would imagine. I don't think your problem is that severe, but it could be some sort of deflection in the geometry or some play in the hardware.

hit any potholes lately?

 

like I said...I do an allignment on my car at least once a month..usually out of boredom.

mechanically my car is perfect...biggest change was with the coilovers and ZERO rear wheel droop

 

a mid-corner break-away like that i'd start looking at rear camber and the droop travel of the shock. the condition of your tires and what is happening with the brakes would be helpful to know too. (ie, rears locking up under heavy braking, etc)

nate

ps. 80ft slalom on race rubber you should be close to the rev limiter

 

I agree with solo-x. This is all bench theory, but:

The lack of rear sway bar (paired with a sturdy rear STB and AP race bar) could possibly be allowing the rear outside tire to roll-over a bit under cornering instead of staying flat... and then it will slip unexpectedly as the weight transitions to the outside rear mid-turn.

The lack of the rear sway bar is more than likely also the reason you feel more stable in slaloms as well.

So, you could try some more negative camber in the rear if you can get it, and see if it fixes the problem without creating a new one. If you like it, maybe you're on to something (though I'm sure something similar has been tried before, and it didnt catch on for some reason).

If more negative camber doesnt help, a rear sway bar is probably the answer... be sure to get an adjustable one.

Until you get a chance to mess with it, maybe raising the rear tire pressures some and staying with azenis (as opposed to firestones) would be safer for the streets.


Modified by hatch2k at 10:33 AM 11/22/2004

 

So what you're saying is as the season has progressed, or recently you're experiencing more oversteer?...

Could be tires are more worn now then in the beginning of the season...
Could be lower ambient temperatures are not allowing enough heat to generate in your tires...
Could be you hit a significant bump on the street or an autocross and either your alignment has been whacked out, or you may have busted a shock seal?...

Could be any number of things, but weed out the least expensive options first.

 

Just add more rate to the rear

 

Its definitely something to do with your rear roll rate. There's too much roll, and the outside rear is doing too much work It sounds like the inside rear isn't doing anything since it spends all its time in the air during turns. Flatten the car out and you'll regain some stability.