Are there any available springs like this (see pic below) for ground controls coilovers? I have a 92 teg and i already have the GCs for my car. I dunno what they're called but i think they're used so the main spring doesn't move around when the shock is uncompressed all the way. Also, if anyone knows, where can i get them? TIA.


pic taken from autocrossing.com

 

Yes. Call Ground Control. Or TrueChoice. Or any reputable Eibach retailer.

They are called tender springs or helper springs, depending on the use. Helper springs are used as you stated, to locate the main spring at full droop (and usually are very soft, like 10lb/in) and are fully compressed when loaded. Tender springs are stiffer (150-300lb/in) and used with a stiff, linear main spring to give a progressive setup.

 

Those are tender or helper springs, although I can't tell which from the pic. Basically they exist to load the main spring and keep it in place at all times, and/or to assist it with a lower spring rate for initial compression (making it technically a progressive setup) depending upon various uses and factors.

You can get them in various sizes and strengths directly from Ground Control. See these links:
http://www.ground-control.com/gcers250.htm
http://www.ground-control.com/gcers2257.htm
http://www.ground-control.com/gcers2254.htm

Hope that helps,

Jon

 

Sweet I wish I knew about those sooner. My 3-week-old rear GC sleeves are all chewed up from my springs not seating correctly (it takes very little suspension travel to unseat my springs) and rubbing against the sleeve. I read a thread a while back where someone was concerned about springs unseating, and all the answers were like "don't worry they'll reseat fine" or "if your springs are unseating themselves you've got bigger suspension problems to worry about." Boy were they wrong. No mention of these helper/tender springs.

 

Helpers and tenders are rarely seen on street cars. I haven't even seen any IT cars with them (maybe not allowed?). Just remember, if you add them, you might need to change the length of the main spring - better call the pros to answe that though.

 

wow, that was quick.

Thanks guys. Uhmm last Q, how much should i expect to pay for a set of tender springs and the metal peice that goes in between the tender and main springs? Just wanna get a general idea. Thanks again.

 

Just a guess, but about $100-$150.

 

Mmmmm.... Hoosier Dirt Stockers....

 

Under $150 sounds right. But whatever Jay at Ground Control wants to charge is ok, just pay it and say thanks... he's given many of us plenty of great (and often free) advice over the years.

Jon
who now has a renewed interest in a custom progressive GC/AGX setup for street/track, thanks to this thread...

 

Jon - AGX? Do they hold up ok on the SE-R? They don't seem to hold up too long on Civics (at least not with the spring rates commonly used).

 

They seem to hold up ok with lower spring rates (less than 350# f/r) for mostly street use, but they are far from perfect IMHO. I think 2-3 years out of a set is ballpark. At least they are affordable...

Unfortunately, there is no Tokico Illumina application for the SE-R (not that those last very long either). And the off-the-shelf Konis for the SE-R's are even more useless and short-lived due to an unofficial design flaw. So, short of double-adjustable GAB's (expensive and impossible to find), or a custom Truechoice/Shocktek/Motivational shortened-body setup (all kinds of crazy $$$)... the AGX's end up being the only way to go. I would not use them on any dedicated racecar SE-R, or with any kind of serious spring rates, though. I just don't think they can handle it. OTOH, with stock springs or Pro-Kits or something similar for pimptastic street use, they are absolutely great.

All IMHO of course, and all for a non-Honda application FWIW,

Jon

 

with under 350lb/in spring rates, provided you have plenty of shock travel, they'll do you just fine. I've heard that the Sentras have limited suspension travel issues like a Civic?

 

Those look like the BFG All-Terrains I had on my Jeep.

PS- Those are Dirt Stockers? I thought these were
(note the similar but not identical tread pattern):



Jon
who can barely afford dry track tires, much less a 'wet setup'

 

Unfortunately, yes. More than 1" drop = trouble. Hence the popularity of cu$tom $hortened-$trut-body $etup$ from places like Motivational Engineering...

Jon
who can barely afford short beers, much less short struts

 

Um... <clears throat>, uh, well, I never said that the pictured tires WERE dirt stockers, you know, I was just, you know, expressing a general positive sentiment toward dirt stockers... You know, in general... Um.... Uh, sorry for the, uh, confusion...

 

One can never spend too much time memorizing tread patterns.

 

AGXs on the prelude, no problems yet... 20k on them and a lot of track driving...

 

Sorry to steal some of the attention from jonsteR's tender spring question, but a few people spoke of maximum capacities of shocks, and I was wondering a questions regarding the infamous Tokico HP:
They seem to be pretty well matched to 340/186 H&R Sports, but I need more rear stiffness (understeering all over the place at the autoX); probably at least 350lb/in. Do you guys think the Tokicos can rebound properly to twice the rate they are at now? Or will my car bounce like Neuspeed Race spring on stock shocks?

Thanks

BTW jon: did you get custom rate GCs and if so what rates did you get?

 

Hey Chris, haven't gotten any custom springs. I will try to run with my stock spring rates and go from there. What would you recomend?

 

That sounds like a cheap shot at me. After the routine maintenance that's overdue on my car, Koni Yellows are in store for me.

As for the Tokico HP's, I vow never to buy them again. I had them on my '89 Accord with 400lb coilovers and the shocks just up and died. I'd save up to get Koni's the next time you upgrade your suspension, and I've heard that Koni's can handle up to about 600lb springs. After that you have to go to custom valved. I think Tokico HP's aren't any better than stock.

As for my suspension I'm thinking of upgrading my current spring rate to 500F/600R with Koni yellows. I'm currently running on 500F/450R and the inability to even remotely dial-in oversteer/neutral handling is driving me nuts.

 

LOL! I was thinking the same thing

 

Nasty. Unseated spring eats sleeve. These GC sleeves are about a month old, and I always make sure the spring is seated correctly when I raise and lower the car. Unfortunately, thanks to a 21 mm S/T rear anti roll bar, the inside rear corner unloads enough to unseat this 8-inch spring. (Eibach does not make a 9" spring in a 2.5" diameter and the 10" spring is too long).

 

Damn dude, that's whack!

uhmmm any of you use dust boots? I just put on rubber dust boots (power steering bellows) just in case.

 

Uh, before I get flamed by what's-his-face, it has been pointed out to me that but the larger rear bar would help prevent my spring shock from decompressing as much on the inside rear.
Nevertheless, still enough to unseat the spring.

 

Hahaha...no not a cheap shot. Just an example.

Actually, I don't remember you're car bouncing at all.

Anyway, I think that I am going to continue with my GC/ Tokico HP plan (I can't really afford to blow $320 on GCs, much less $800 on GC/Konis). First, I'm going to autocross with the current setup since the Progress rear sway is on. The difference is huge. If you want to dial in some more neutral handling, Jonna, you may want to give it a shot before you buy the Konis/GCs (even though you're going to anyway). If I like it now, then I may opt to keep it for a while. However, I think that I should hold off for awhile. The car must be streetable for a long time, and I don't want titanium inserts in my spine.

BTW Jonna: have you started your brake install yet? I'll give your cell a ring sometime in the next few days, when I get off work. I may give the Axxis Ultimate pads a try, so we could compare the two possibly in the future. Oh yeah, I got a tool set, and I've already began tinkiering around with stuff.

Jon (other jon): When you say the stock rates, do mean the GC LE rates? I would like to go with something like 400/ 425, but mojoGSR would suggest something a bit more extreme like 500/600, I believe. Let me know what you decide to do.