Alignment done: KG/MM Race /w Koni Yellows
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Alignment done: KG/MM Race /w Koni Yellows
I finally got around to getting the 4-wheel alignment done.
=Before=
Front:
camber - L -1. 3 R-1.0
toe - L -.34 R -.37
Rear:
camber - L -2.3 R -2.6
toe - L .42 R .59
=After=
Front:
camber - L -.6 R -.5
toe - L -.01 R -.00
Rear:
camber - L -2.0 R -2.0
toe - L .31 R .31
========================
As you can see, the least amont of camber I could run is -2.0 degrees. We set the toe .31 degrees on the rear so we can even out the tire wearr, we barely got the toe in within the specified range. I'm just glad I didn't set the rear on the lower perch setting (camber would be really off).
The car had a very heavy feel when turning before the alignment. Turning response had a delay and the tires would squeel hard during a moderate turn. This is due to the fact that almost every camber/toe setting for the front and rear wheels were out of wack. So it's very important to get an alignment done after any time you take apart and re-assemble the suspension setup. The car handles beautifully now and it turns immediately right as you turn the wheel. In other words, response is amazingly much, much better now and the tires do not make noise at all.
BTW it's a pain in the *** to get a lowered car on the alignment rack, I will never do this again.
=Before=
Front:
camber - L -1. 3 R-1.0
toe - L -.34 R -.37
Rear:
camber - L -2.3 R -2.6
toe - L .42 R .59
=After=
Front:
camber - L -.6 R -.5
toe - L -.01 R -.00
Rear:
camber - L -2.0 R -2.0
toe - L .31 R .31
========================
As you can see, the least amont of camber I could run is -2.0 degrees. We set the toe .31 degrees on the rear so we can even out the tire wearr, we barely got the toe in within the specified range. I'm just glad I didn't set the rear on the lower perch setting (camber would be really off).
The car had a very heavy feel when turning before the alignment. Turning response had a delay and the tires would squeel hard during a moderate turn. This is due to the fact that almost every camber/toe setting for the front and rear wheels were out of wack. So it's very important to get an alignment done after any time you take apart and re-assemble the suspension setup. The car handles beautifully now and it turns immediately right as you turn the wheel. In other words, response is amazingly much, much better now and the tires do not make noise at all.
BTW it's a pain in the *** to get a lowered car on the alignment rack, I will never do this again.
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Joined: Nov 2000
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From: Laguna
Re: Alignment done: KG/MM Race /w Koni Yellows (Razor)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Razor »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I finally got around to getting the 4-wheel alignment done.
=Before=
Front:
camber - L -1. 3 R-1.0
toe - L -.34 R -.37
Rear:
camber - L -2.3 R -2.6
toe - L .42 R .59
=After=
Front:
camber - L -.6 R -.5
toe - L -.01 R -.00
Rear:
camber - L -2.0 R -2.0
toe - L .31 R .31
========================
As you can see, the least amont of camber I could run is -2.0 degrees. We set the toe .31 degrees on the rear so we can even out the tire wearr, we barely got the toe in within the specified range. I'm just glad I didn't set the rear on the lower perch setting (camber would be really off).
The car had a very heavy feel when turning before the alignment. Turning response had a delay and the tires would squeel hard during a moderate turn. This is due to the fact that almost every camber/toe setting for the front and rear wheels were out of wack. So it's very important to get an alignment done after any time you take apart and re-assemble the suspension setup. The car handles beautifully now and it turns immediately right as you turn the wheel. In other words, response is amazingly much, much better now and the tires do not make noise at all.
BTW it's a pain in the *** to get a lowered car on the alignment rack, I will never do this again.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Depends on the shop you go to and what kind of cars they work on. Plenty of alignment shops here that are used to dealing to low ground clearance cars.
You're front toe settings were pretty off, what was the caster before and after? The reason the steering was heavy was due to your "Toe out" setting. Typically, you dial in toe out to get the car to rotate and pitch into turns easier (cars that understeer badly need some toe out in the front). Sideeffect is accelerated tire wear in the front and turn-in oversteer.
=Before=
Front:
camber - L -1. 3 R-1.0
toe - L -.34 R -.37
Rear:
camber - L -2.3 R -2.6
toe - L .42 R .59
=After=
Front:
camber - L -.6 R -.5
toe - L -.01 R -.00
Rear:
camber - L -2.0 R -2.0
toe - L .31 R .31
========================
As you can see, the least amont of camber I could run is -2.0 degrees. We set the toe .31 degrees on the rear so we can even out the tire wearr, we barely got the toe in within the specified range. I'm just glad I didn't set the rear on the lower perch setting (camber would be really off).
The car had a very heavy feel when turning before the alignment. Turning response had a delay and the tires would squeel hard during a moderate turn. This is due to the fact that almost every camber/toe setting for the front and rear wheels were out of wack. So it's very important to get an alignment done after any time you take apart and re-assemble the suspension setup. The car handles beautifully now and it turns immediately right as you turn the wheel. In other words, response is amazingly much, much better now and the tires do not make noise at all.
BTW it's a pain in the *** to get a lowered car on the alignment rack, I will never do this again.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Depends on the shop you go to and what kind of cars they work on. Plenty of alignment shops here that are used to dealing to low ground clearance cars.
You're front toe settings were pretty off, what was the caster before and after? The reason the steering was heavy was due to your "Toe out" setting. Typically, you dial in toe out to get the car to rotate and pitch into turns easier (cars that understeer badly need some toe out in the front). Sideeffect is accelerated tire wear in the front and turn-in oversteer.
Thread Starter
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Re: Alignment done: KG/MM Race /w Koni Yellows (vapor)
vapor, my caster settings before and after are as follows:
before
L 7.2 R 7.2
after
L 7.1 R 7.0
We couldn't get the caster within specified range, that is the lowest we could go.
Btw thanks for your reply.
before
L 7.2 R 7.2
after
L 7.1 R 7.0
We couldn't get the caster within specified range, that is the lowest we could go.
Btw thanks for your reply.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,738
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Re: Alignment done: KG/MM Race /w Koni Yellows (Eh2 to Ap1)
my friend at honda did it. he only took $40 bucks. he didn't want to charge me at all (i bought him beer, that'll cheer up anyone 
) but i gave him $40 anyways b/c it wasn't easy at all to get it on the alingment rack (without scrathcing anything).
average is $60 bucks. i've seen some charge $100 but i think thats too much.
) but i gave him $40 anyways b/c it wasn't easy at all to get it on the alingment rack (without scrathcing anything). average is $60 bucks. i've seen some charge $100 but i think thats too much.
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,278
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From: Laguna
Re: Alignment done: KG/MM Race /w Koni Yellows (Razor)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Razor »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">vapor, my caster settings before and after are as follows:
before
L 7.2 R 7.2
after
L 7.1 R 7.0
We couldn't get the caster within specified range, that is the lowest we could go.
Btw thanks for your reply. </TD></TR></TABLE>
lowest??? You want to get as much caster out of the alignment as you can. It improves turn-in response and slip angles through a turn. Factory BMW's are known to have over 10 degrees of caster, my friend's e30m3 comes dialed in with 12 degrees from the factory! Those are good caster numbers I could only manage to squeeze out 5.8 degrees of camber with the stock suspension, as you increase camber in the front, you lose caster.
before
L 7.2 R 7.2
after
L 7.1 R 7.0
We couldn't get the caster within specified range, that is the lowest we could go.
Btw thanks for your reply.
</TD></TR></TABLE>lowest??? You want to get as much caster out of the alignment as you can. It improves turn-in response and slip angles through a turn. Factory BMW's are known to have over 10 degrees of caster, my friend's e30m3 comes dialed in with 12 degrees from the factory! Those are good caster numbers
I could only manage to squeeze out 5.8 degrees of camber with the stock suspension, as you increase camber in the front, you lose caster.
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Re: Alignment done: KG/MM Race /w Koni Yellows (Razor)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Razor »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my friend at honda did it. he only took $40 bucks. he didn't want to charge me at all (i bought him beer, that'll cheer up anyone ) but i gave him $40 anyways b/c it wasn't easy at all to get it on the alingment rack (without scrathcing anything).
average is $60 bucks. i've seen some charge $100 but i think thats too much. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Bears alignment - $210 for a full alignment. All by hand no digital stuff.
They do race cars and stuff too
) but i gave him $40 anyways b/c it wasn't easy at all to get it on the alingment rack (without scrathcing anything). average is $60 bucks. i've seen some charge $100 but i think thats too much. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Bears alignment - $210 for a full alignment. All by hand no digital stuff.
They do race cars and stuff too
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Re: Alignment done: KG/MM Race /w Koni Yellows (PNB)
$628 from bulletproof. not the cheapest but i received them quickly.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PNB »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Razor
How much did you get your Koni Yellows for? I need to pick up some for both the front and the rear. Thanks.</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FeatherWeight »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> All by hand no digital stuff.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
what do you mean by that?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PNB »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Razor
How much did you get your Koni Yellows for? I need to pick up some for both the front and the rear. Thanks.</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FeatherWeight »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> All by hand no digital stuff.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
what do you mean by that?
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,278
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From: Laguna
Re: Alignment done: KG/MM Race /w Koni Yellows (scott k)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by scott k »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Firestone offers lifetime alignment for $110. fyi.</TD></TR></TABLE>
that's a killer deal if the alignment guy is familar with working on s2000's and knows what he's doing. After going to different alignment shops, you'd be surprised at the skill level
that's a killer deal if the alignment guy is familar with working on s2000's and knows what he's doing. After going to different alignment shops, you'd be surprised at the skill level
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,278
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From: Laguna
Re: Alignment done: KG/MM Race /w Koni Yellows (vapor)
by hand, he means that measurments for the alignment were done with hand tools, not an alignment rack where a computer tells you what the settings are.
Personally, I found a great alignment place in my area that has a laser rack, VERY accurate and the operator worked on a racing team and has tons of experience setting up all kinds of cars.
Personally, I found a great alignment place in my area that has a laser rack, VERY accurate and the operator worked on a racing team and has tons of experience setting up all kinds of cars.
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 806
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From: TX
Re: Alignment done: KG/MM Race /w Koni Yellows (vapor)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vapor »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">by hand, he means that measurments for the alignment were done with hand tools, not an alignment rack where a computer tells you what the settings are.
Personally, I found a great alignment place in my area that has a laser rack, VERY accurate and the operator worked on a racing team and has tons of experience setting up all kinds of cars. </TD></TR></TABLE>
definately ideal. the quality of the alignment goes only so far with the equipment. the operator of that equipment does the fine tuning and understands the suspension. a friend of mine, local here, has a shop. it is the top notch Hunter machine, but it isn't laser. apparently, for those that are **** about doing the business, there can be some margin of error (although very slight and not noticable on a street car) with the laser alignment machines. he opted for the wired. while it isn't laser, it isn't as expensive.
speaking of hand alignments, Tony at TC Design once told me about a story of a customer of his. apparently, the guy came in for an alignment, came back to pick it up and then realized Tony didn't have an alignment machine. Tony does his alignments by hand, string, measuring tape and some well designed tools. the guy was upset and Tony contested his alignment job with an electronic unit a few miles away. the car was driven over, aligned and was only slightly off on one of the settings. and for a street car, that can be negligible with it being only .05-.1 off on a camber setting. everything else was dead on. great guy, so if you are in the bay area, he does top notch work.
Personally, I found a great alignment place in my area that has a laser rack, VERY accurate and the operator worked on a racing team and has tons of experience setting up all kinds of cars. </TD></TR></TABLE>
definately ideal. the quality of the alignment goes only so far with the equipment. the operator of that equipment does the fine tuning and understands the suspension. a friend of mine, local here, has a shop. it is the top notch Hunter machine, but it isn't laser. apparently, for those that are **** about doing the business, there can be some margin of error (although very slight and not noticable on a street car) with the laser alignment machines. he opted for the wired. while it isn't laser, it isn't as expensive.
speaking of hand alignments, Tony at TC Design once told me about a story of a customer of his. apparently, the guy came in for an alignment, came back to pick it up and then realized Tony didn't have an alignment machine. Tony does his alignments by hand, string, measuring tape and some well designed tools. the guy was upset and Tony contested his alignment job with an electronic unit a few miles away. the car was driven over, aligned and was only slightly off on one of the settings. and for a street car, that can be negligible with it being only .05-.1 off on a camber setting. everything else was dead on. great guy, so if you are in the bay area, he does top notch work.
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From: Brookfield,Wis.
hey Razo check this out http://over6racing.com/features/mistress.html
your caster should be a little less and front camber a little more this set up is a race proven setup
your caster should be a little less and front camber a little more this set up is a race proven setup
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From: Laguna
Re: (hondamanwill)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hondamanwill »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hey Razo check this out http://over6racing.com/features/mistress.html
your caster should be a little less and front camber a little more this set up is a race proven setup</TD></TR></TABLE>
the more camber you run in the front, your caster will be reduced. There's no such thing as the perfect alignment, alignment settings are dependent on driving preferences and an auto-x setting is WAAAAY different than a track setup and then you have a street setup that has to compromise tire wear for handling performance.
your caster should be a little less and front camber a little more this set up is a race proven setup</TD></TR></TABLE>
the more camber you run in the front, your caster will be reduced. There's no such thing as the perfect alignment, alignment settings are dependent on driving preferences and an auto-x setting is WAAAAY different than a track setup and then you have a street setup that has to compromise tire wear for handling performance.
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