I was just reminiscing (actually cringing) on how disappointed I first was when I got my spec b's and had stock header/ exhaust and c/r... I had a little less peak whp and was unhappy with it...

I wonder if there are others out there who had i/h/e and decided to take the huge jump and drop in toda c's... What were the results?

I've got a friend interested in some cams soon and although type 3's look good, he wants some power between 4-6k as well... I have suggested what I know (that being b's), but c's have the same midrange and better top end... He could grow his engine on this combo I think...

Pro's? Con's?

Yaya, we all know that higer compression is a must to get the most out of these cams but the question is whether or not it'll be as good/ better than spec b's on stock c/r.....

 

I know FASTAZNUTS has, try IM'ing him,

 

I wouldn't consider it a big jump going from Toda B's to Toda C's.
Same ****.. little more lift n' duration on the VTEC lobe.

Kinda like comparing JUN2 to JUN3. Very similar.


Either way, I wouldn't run B's or C's on stock compression. JUN3's for that matter either. With such huge duration you end up losing a lot of the pressure in the cylinder (compression).. and the gains that SHOULD be seen usually aren't.
This is why the JUN2/ITR combo does better than JUN2 int/exh cams on a stock R motor. The ITR exhaust cam helps keep more compression in. Look at Vegeta's dyno, and check his midrange. Spec B's in this same setup would make less torque.

Even notice that people with Spec B's can run way more ignition advance than those w/ ITR cams? Because the ITR cams keep more compression due to less duration. This translates to more torque.

Also, this brings me to the argument of the "Toda B killer midrange".. yes, there may have been some of you out there who got phenomenal gains in the midrange from the B's.. but this was due to excessive fuel and ignition tuning.

Let's assume we got a ITR motor w/CTR pistons, programmable management, good header, etc.. let's say it's making 200whp and about 138tq.
Taking the B's out and installing ITR cams.. I'm pretty confident the ITR cams will make better torque due to the fact of the more compression.

I know this was taken a little off topic.. but I just wanted to get this out.

 

Mike,

I agree wholeheartedly with your post. The entire system is what will give you power - we are in effect taking away some of that balance by installing cams and not raising compression to compensate... But it can be done to eek a little more power out of the ride without pulling the head off... That's the goal.

But what I'm trying to ascertain is whether the c's will give less of an increase up top than the b's on stock c/r (10.6:1)... I know the a's will give more peak, but less midrange than b's or c's...

 

I beg to differ. On a 100% stock motor, I think the A's will do better.

Maybe even with I/H/E and tuning, I'm sure it will still be a good match.

Here's a good example.. b18c5 w/ 11.9:1 Endyn pistons and a Mugen header.
Spec A's vs. Spec B's.
Stock air hose w/ Comptech filter element
Skunk2 P28 w/ OBD1 and SFC-VTEC controller

 

I got 194.4 whp with Cs on stock compression with the Spoon header, AEM CAI, V-AFC, and full 2.5" exhaust.


Jason

 

.....ooh, ok now that's what I was looking for!!!

Have you got a plot we can see Jason? I wanna see what the midrange looks like.....

It would be nice to compare Mike's plots and yours since we'll have a's, b's, and c's.....

and thanks again Mike!