What would be better(in your EXPERIENCED opinion) to use for a street, autocross, road racing car?

Everyone and anyone who doesn't know **** about what these cars do in actual racing conditions, don't reply. I don't care what car looks better to you or would be more "pimp". Newbies with ignorant views, don't waste my time!!!

I want educated and experienced people to reply only!!!

 

84-87 CRX would be first choice, then 88-91 CRX, then 92-95 HB.

Just a little weight issue.

Also check SCCA autox results. See all those 84-87 CRX's listed???

 

Hard to beat the '88-'91 CRX Si for roadracing and autocross. CRX Si won the ARRC this year (SCCA ITA) and I believe won at least one class in the SOLO I Nationals. CRX has been dominant car in ITA for years but is being challenged now by well prepped 240sx's - at least in South East Divison.

Mik'88 CRX Si
#27 ITA

 

CRX, Integra, Civic, Prelude would all be good choices. Depends on your budget and on what you can get the best deal on, but I would think the CRX would be cheapest to get going.

If you decide to take it more seriously, Preludes and GSRs can win races in ITS while the CRXs can do it in ITA. But at this point you won't have street legal cars anymore. Even the top Showroom Stock cars right now with their trick $$$ "stock" engine rebuilds are track only cars.


And there is/was only 1 Nissan in ITA who caused all the trouble (at least for us). The other four 240s we've raced here in the sediv this year were considerably slower and were never a real threat to the good old CRX. (..last time I talked to Bob S, he was selling that one and only Nissan for $17K after the arrc. Considering he put in $37K into that car, this could almost be considered a steal! )

 

No substitute for cubic dollars!!

 

Well said. Lets see now how Bob does in WC Touring next year with his BMW since just about everybody can play the same cubic dollar game over there. Still I hope he does well because he seemed like a nice guy after all.

 

Hey Alex....how's it going?

Ted has decided to bite the bullet and authorized Tom Fowler to do about $4000 of engine work on our car. He is planning on running a regular schedule this season. I MAY run a few Honda Challenge events but that will be the only wheel to wheel I plan for 2002. Ted has to get relicensed so he is doing Roebling in Feb. I may try the NASA school the weekend after but not sure at the moment.

Got any ideas on finding a nice used suspension for a ITA CRX? We gotta get those Tokico Blues outta there....but, Ted was turning some 1:51 - 1:52's at Road Atlanta in November on worn Kumhos with our base suspension. Hoping rebuild and fresh tires will get him into 1:47 - 1:48. Not going to win at those times, but won't be at the back, either.

Look forward to seeing you in 2002.

Mike

 

Oh yeah, it's always good to see fellow IT drivers do well in pro series.

 

If you want a car that will be fun on the street, fairly practical, be locally competitive (probably) in autocross, and be a blast for lapping days (as opposed to being competitive in some specific class for time trials and road races), then I doubt you could beat a 92-95 hybrid hatch. However, if you actually want to go road racing, then you'll be screwed in terms of classing with a hybrid hatch, which is probably why there's so many votes for the CRX.

My feeling is, though, that if you're gonna drive it on the street, and you actually have to ask which car you should get, then you're probably not gonna be really road-racing anyway, so you should just build an awesomely fun car and screw competition.

Note: A well-built and well-driven civic 92-95 hybrid should be able to be quite competitive at least locally in SCCA's Street Mod (SM) class.

-Mike

 

Hey Mike... I thought that was you posting! Great to see you guys are making so much progress.

Best suspension on a budget would be the koni single adj. revalved with some eibach 500f/700r springs from Tom. Throw in an adj. rear sway bar for more adjustability, but the stock rear bar is all we're using. This is actually the exact suspension on the CRX I'll be racing next year in a few races here and there and also maybe in the Honda Challenge. And this full suspension should come out cheaper than what the koni race double adj. cost alone.
If Louis doesn't sell his car he's most likely doing the pro-it next year with it, but if you guys can run consistently in the 47s-48s at R.A. you won't have much trouble with anyone else in the Atl region. At least that's how its been for the last two years. But, unfortunately if you are building your car so much, you guys will have to do yourselves justice and also run on hoosiers. CRXs really like hoosiers for some reason!

Good to hear from you Mike!

 

definately try to find an 88. they are lighter, due to the fact about the no seatbelts in doors. those suck! just try and mount a racing harness because of em! i hate 'em! although, my 90 does have discs in the rear which helps keep the brake fluid temps down a little. i auto-x, btw. hmmmm. the 90-91 had a different cam profile, which gained around 2-4 HP in the Si. hmmmm. def. try and find an 88. and stay away from rust!!! good god, stay away!!!! it's soooo much money to fix rust on a CRX. my friends 88 is rusting sooo bad, even the jack points are gone! but the CRX is a great platform, and mine is getting a B16 within the month. the motor was actually shipped out today..

 

I didn't see anybody mention an 90-93 Integra for ITA. A bit more weight to carry, but also more torque and a bit more power. Can it beat a CRX? I've seen a few fast ones here in DC, but don't know if it has an ARRC history.

An ITC CRX or Civic would be hard to beat cost-wise. Use a hatchback if you will be driving to the track. A CRX will work, but how the hell Speedracer33 fits all his stuff is beyond me.

Or, don't be afraid to look beyond the Honda stables. Miatas are very good track cars - excellent balance, reasonable price, and usually fairly competitive. Low power, RWD cars make great learner cars.

 

the 88 and 89-91 Si cams have the same profile. The 88 cams were ground on the 1.5L keyway index. In 89 the Si cams got their own indexing thus gaining 3 hp but giving up a bit of torque in the mid range.

A adjustable cam gear would give same power gains/losses.

 

Good point Crack Monkey. Definitely the 90-93 Integra. Great platform, long wheelbase, gets down the straights faster than a CRX, is a Honda, and the Integra makes for a really great looking track car. This would be the first car on the list if I were to be given the money to build an ITA car right now. The fastest A-cars this year (with the exception of Bob Stretch's 240 and the OPM CRX with Tom behind the wheel) have been a pair of 90-93 Integras. There's a white one from Florida that finished 3rd at the arrc and won the arrc enduro, while the other one is black/yellow driven just as fast by Brian Quinette who unfortunately did not make the arrc. The 90-93 Integras definitely have a good track record and most certainly would run up front in H4.

 

I dunno... The G2 Integra would be a nice street project but for racing just the fact that it has to shlep at least 500lbs more weight than a CRX would kill it. In racing, it's not just about power-to-weight, it about weight period. That 25% more weight means about 25% less cornering force, 25% more braking force needed to slow it down. I say between a CRX and a G2 Teg, if both are equally prepared, the CRX will spank the Teg everytime despite having some 30 less HP... IMO, FWIW...


[Modified by jsi, 9:02 AM 12/27/2001]

 

I saw one g2 in ITA last year. I asked him why he picked it instead of a crx and he said, "My parents bought me the car" I laughed as I walked away.

So what are the biggest difference in the 88-89 and the 90-91 si models??? Do the rules permit a rear disc brake conversion or a brake upgrade?

 

I believe the rules allow for disc brake conversion. We're still running drums in the back, but most of the top CRXs are running four disc brakes. The problem is messing around with the brake bias, which can get frustrating. The '88 also have a different rear suspension and is the lightest of the 2nd gen CRXs. But in the end any year is fine as long as you can get it down near the 2140 lbs minimum weight.

For all you g2 integra non-believers , I'll say it again: The 90-93 Integra makes a TOP ITA car or H4 car. The integra that finished 3rd at the ARRC sprint this year ran right on pace with the best all weekend (again excluding that one and only 240). The credit goes to the driver John Wilding since he is very good, but he was still just getting comfortable with Road Atlanta. Put Tom in the teg and no doubt we would have seen a teg win ITA handily. I've seen what the g2 integra is capable of all year long since those two fast ITA tegs were basically what we were always racing against. I think the minimum weight is 2430(?) for the tegs, don't have the book in front of me. And having just under 145 wheel-hp and making up 2 to 4 car lengths on a CRX depending on the length of the straights is a whole lot more "convenient" than driving the wheels of the rex in the infield to make up the lost space. Only to have your mirrors totally filled once again at the end of the main straights lap after lap. I remember this all too well from Roebling earlier this year playing this game with the white teg for about 60 minutes. But it's a real fun game, especially those times where you come out on top. As reference, I've seen the black integra run a 1:23.8 at Roebling and got into the 2:19s at VIR, while the white integra dipped into the 1:44s at Road Atlanta with Dwight Kelly behind the wheel. These are some seriously fast times and proves what the car can do.

CRXs still go for slightly cheaper than g2 integras, but it basically comes down to preference. Are you a CRX fan or not? Do you like making up the time on the straights or in the turns? On most tracks they balance out. Roebling's long sweepers do favor the lighter crx towards the end of a race, but a strong integra can very well walk away on power tracks like Daytona. Since this has been the first year where we've seen what fully built g2 integras are capable of, I seriously would consider giving a similarly prepped teg a try if we didn't have a CRX right now.

But in autox, the winner is definitely a CRX on raw time.


[Modified by Hracer, 7:33 PM 12/27/2001]

 

For the differences:
http://resource.crx.org/crx_information.html

as far as updating of parts, that would depend on the racing organization. I'm pretty sure Solo2 rules permit the updating of parts of the same make/model if the models are classified the same. Not sure about IT though, check out improvedtouring.com

 

thank you oh so much. i was told the profile, but now i truely know. that is very interesting to know, too..

btw, an 89 Accord LXi brake booster is supposedly to bolt in for a little bit better pedal and i know i am doing a 90-91 EX front brake upgrade. but, then again, i am in DMOD with my b16.

 

In SCCA IT classes you may up- or back-date "assemblies" among the years of your car listed in the rules book. For example, the CRX Si 1.6 (non-VTEC, 1590cc) is listed as including the years '88-91, so you could swap the entire engine out of the later model into the reportedly lighter '88. Ditto for any other assembly - wiring harness, brake system, deck lid, or whatever.

You may NOT:

* Up- or back-date part of an "assembly" (like just the cam from the later car) into another assembly
* Swap in any parts from other models or years or do any of the hybrid stuff that Hondas seem to be particularly good at!

For most models, it doesn't take long to figure out what the best recipe is, once a body of knowledge has been established for a car. Unfortunately, the only way to get the SCCA road racing rules book is to buy it from the club - it is not available online in any form, that I know of...

Kirk

 

heheheee. 88 HF with 90-91 Si motor/tranny/brakes....