I work for ATI Performance Products in Baltimore, Maryland. We have produced performance engine dampers since 1984. We currently produce dampers for import cars for off-road racing purposes. With the increased popularity of the import street scene we are developing a direct replacement for street use that has integral serpentine grooves machined into the housing. I have a prototype on my desk. The damper is also available with a bolt-on power steering pulley. Its race- proven ability to reduce crank twist is contained in this compact 6 lb. unit.

I was prompted to post this note after reading a note about underdrive pulleys vs. oem dampers concerning performance and bearing life. I can email photos of the unit upon request. I do not have pricing or availability yet. If the interest is high I will advertise the unit on "honda-tech".

Are there any serious engine builders out there? I may be able to supply a "test" unit if I can verify your credentials.

ATI Super Dampers are SFI manufacturer certified, NHRA & IHRA accepted.

Your feedback is appreciated, Randy Bruette. ATI Racing.

 

Damper? Like a replacement crank pulley or what? Harmonic balancer? Post a pic up on the forum. I wont trouble you by email because I'm only casually interested and I don't even know what it is.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rhb1957 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I work for ATI Performance Products in Baltimore, Maryland. We have produced performance engine dampers since 1984. We currently produce dampers for import cars for off-road racing purposes. With the increased popularity of the import street scene we are developing a direct replacement for street use that has integral serpentine grooves machined into the housing. I have a prototype on my desk. The damper is also available with a bolt-on power steering pulley. Its race- proven ability to reduce crank twist is contained in this compact 6 lb. unit.

I was prompted to post this note after reading a note about underdrive pulleys vs. oem dampers concerning performance and bearing life. I can email photos of the unit upon request. I do not have pricing or availability yet. If the interest is high I will advertise the unit on "honda-tech".

Are there any serious engine builders out there? I may be able to supply a "test" unit if I can verify your credentials.

ATI Super Dampers are SFI manufacturer certified, NHRA & IHRA accepted.

Your feedback is appreciated, Randy Bruette. ATI Racing.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes this is interesting, I'm not a serious engine builder though but I'm doing a engine build this winter and I was planning on getting a Fluidamper because you didn't have a street version avalable. Got any pics and more info on this? I'm looking for one with A/C but without P/S.

You can send pics to this adress : arngeirb@broadpark.nno

 

Here is a quick tech lesson. "Harmonic Balancers" do not exist. The part you are refering to is a "damper". It's job is to counter the twist in the crankshaft, NOT an out of balance condition. Some dampers have a counter weight that is used to balance the rotating assembly, but that weight does not move around. It simply rotates with the assembly. OEM dampers do an adequate job when operated within their intended rpm range. A perfomance damper should be used when an engine is operated <U>above</U> its intended range. Solid drive pulleys do nothing to dampen crank twist. Most OEM and fluid style dampers lose their effectiveness above 5000 rpm. ATI's Super Damper works best at high rpm. for more tech info on this subject visit http://www.atiracing.com. You are not alone, read and learn. Knowledge is power.

 

Hey PONDUS, my web server could not find your host. Is arngeirb@broadpark.nno correct???

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rhb1957 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hey PONDUS, my web server could not find your host. Is arngeirb@broadpark.nno correct???</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sorry, that's a n too much, should have been arngeirb@broadpark.no

 

I think Donf would be willing. He has an engine dyno and 30yrs of engine buidling experience.

 

Glad to see you here on H-tech.. I run the Ati super damper on my car..250 dyno pulls 3 track events and 8000 miles= No bearing issues at all and 0 oil pressure drop since break in

 

Eye candy.




My machine shop only uses ATI.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rhb1957 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You are not alone, read and learn. Knowledge is power.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Great advice!

The Danger of Power Pulleys &
Understanding the Harmonic Damper

BY STEVE DINAN OF DINAN BMW

That is a great read!

 

I don't understand. I though the pulley dampens harmonics from cylinder pulses. I don't see where crank "twist" comes into play. Am I missing something?

 

Your new prototype seems great, even though I will not be running a daily driven motor, it will be strictly race only.

I was curious though, what the difference was between the Fluidampr and your Super Damper? If it is too much off subject, I will re-direct it too you in person rhb.

 

can a well balanced aftermarket Pulley w/o a dampener work just as well in racing applications?

 

from my perspective, I don't see it actually doing the same as a damper. Even if the crank pulley was well balanced, I don't see it actually reducing vibration/harmonics within the crank shaft, it will rotate more smoothly, but dampning is a whole different thing.. IMO... Rocket/Tbone/RHB could probably provide a better answer.

 

Well torsional energy can be asborbed by the wieght of the pulley or in the case of the ATI, the weight of the pulley and friction from the elastomer bands.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Runnerdown &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't understand. I though the pulley dampens harmonics from cylinder pulses. I don't see where crank "twist" comes into play. Am I missing something?</TD></TR></TABLE>

The thing you are missing is the information to tie together the bits and pieces of your knowledge to fully understand the concept. It is difficult, sometimes, to understand things we can not see or touch.
The cylinder (power) pulses are exerting a force on the crankshaft The rest of the engine is somewhat resistant to this force. These two forces induce a twist in the crankshaft. Are you still awake?? This info gets a little sleep inducing.
If you want more info... http://www.atiracing.com. Go to the tech articles. READ them. Read them again. When it finally clicks in the brain cells, you will be better informed to make performance decisions. Share your knowledge.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by exospeedAMcrx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">can a well balanced aftermarket Pulley w/o a dampener work just as well in racing applications?</TD></TR></TABLE>

NO! A damper does not balance an engine. A damper reduces crankshaft twist that is induced by the engine's power pulses. A power pulley (balanced or otherwise) is just along for the ride. Running without a damper is giving engine bearings the "kiss of death". The power gains achieved by using a lightweight pulley are a short term gain. ATI's damper has proven to be most effective in engines exceding 6000 rpm. Dyno tests have proven that reducing crank twist equals more horsepower. The engine rotation is not being held back.

Please Note: ATI's new B-series damper weighs just 6 lb. (including a PS pulley).

 

rhb, you still have not answered my question, in regards to the difference between your damper and the fluidampr?

I saw on thier website a "dyno" type test, between your damper and their's. I know it's a bit biased since it is coming from the same company...which is why I always prefer a 3rd-party test...

But I was just curious on your difference's with each other.

 

[QUOTE=KlawzOfDeath]rhb, you still have not answered my question, in regards to the difference between your damper and the fluidampr?

KlawzofDeath:
I tried to contact you direct, but your email address from your member profile would not go through. I prefer not to answer your question on the open forum. You mentioned the brand name "Fluidampr". This puts me into a legal "gray area". I would be glad to explain why ATI's product is better, but I can't do so openly. Send me a current email address and I will be glad to answer your questions. I hope other members understand this as well. rbruette@atiracing.com

 

I do have one question about the design of the ATI damper i would like an answer to and it has to do with long term reliability of the unit. As the movement of the inerta weight is determined by the O-rings, when used on a daily driven street car how often does the unit need to be rebuilt with new rings? My car will see up to 15k miles a year so if I would have to take the damper off a couple of times a year that's not a + in my book.

 

is this thing a crank pully that acceptes a altanator belt because I dident see a place for the belt to hook on to? im a little confused

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Pondus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I do have one question about the design of the ATI damper i would like an answer to and it has to do with long term reliability of the unit. As the movement of the inerta weight is determined by the O-rings, when used on a daily driven street car how often does the unit need to be rebuilt with new rings? My car will see up to 15k miles a year so if I would have to take the damper off a couple of times a year that's not a + in my book.</TD></TR></TABLE>



I'd like an answer to this as well...

I'm throwing parts together for my build and I've been considering a Fluidampr or the ATI unit but I remember seeing Fluidampr advertising that their unit, since it is fluid based, will last longer or indefinately between rebuilds than the rubber/polymer based ATI (they argue that the compounds in ATI's damper will fatigue over time). Is there any truth to this? Or should I get off my *** and read the Tech articles .

How long can we expect a typical unit on a moderately-built/moderately-abused street car to last, milewise? Very interested, IMO.

 

here is the only problem. your ati damper cost to much. i did want to get one because your local but it was a lot more than the fluidamper. bring down the price and many will buy..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Pondus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I do have one question about the design of the ATI damper i would like an answer to and it has to do with long term reliability of the unit. As the movement of the inerta weight is determined by the O-rings, when used on a daily driven street car how often does the unit need to be rebuilt with new rings? My car will see up to 15k miles a year so if I would have to take the damper off a couple of times a year that's not a + in my book.</TD></TR></TABLE>

So would you rather rebuild your motor a couple times because you chose to use the pully that would last longer without maintenance? If your going to build a honda and want a decent output na with it, your going to have to change things frequently to keep it running safe anyway.
I have run my ATI for over a year now and havent noticed anything different with the unit, no rotation of the outer ring.

 

250+ dyno pulls to 9k+ on Tbone's motor is short of "miraculous". &lt;---- ATI equiped from day 1.