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I was running in the Advanced Group (HPDE3 and 4 were combined, I was in HPDE4) with NASA and was running pretty much without any traffic. Everyone I pass, I try to keep A LOT of room between them and me. I don't want body damage as much as they don't. Plus, anyone who didn't want to be passed in a corner had to put a "N" on the back of their vehicle.

During one session, I come up on a Camaro SS. The Camaro was running much slower and I could tell as I flew up on him in turn 1 and 2. He had no N.

As I was making around turn 2, I see him get off the race line, and what looks like, room for me to pass. I initially back off, but, see that he wasn't going to cut in for the turn, i took the pass.

Not thinking much about it. I continue on. 3 laps later, pull in and go to the download session. In the meeting, the driver said I "dive-bombed" him and ruined his "racing line" causing him to make an emergency move to avoid contact.

I apologized not knowing how close we really were, and since I was the passing vehicle, I should have made sure it was perfectly ok to pass. In reviewing the tape, i saw what I posted.

The first portion was a lap PRIOR to the above incident. The second portion was the actual incident in question.

So, here's my question... was I truly at fault or was he following the race line and i cut him off?

I apologized regardless, just after I reviewed the tape i was thinking maybe I wasn't completely at fault?

Although, nothing happened, but, it's about preventing potential disasters.

 

IMO from your point it looked fine.

the guy was really off line and didn't look to be driving fast enough to Need to make an emergancy move to aviod contact.


he could have just been butt hurt that he got pass by a 4 banger.

 

Although I am not familiar with NASA and how they run their HPDE's....I would have to say that was a very clean pass. He was not even close to turning down to the apex and he should be watching his mirrors therefor knowing that you were there.

Damn he was slow in that corner.

Keep doing what you are doing...looks fun with the B18c1 power!

 

Gesh, what was that guy even doing in group 3/4. I am no expert, but the pass appeared to be clean.

 

clean pass, no problems.

If the camaro driver isnt comfortable w/ that, tell him to go back to group 2.

RJ - who likes passing in the grass

 

Does your NASA region not use point-bys?

Here in NASA-VA, in advanced and instructor groups, you can pass anywhere, but you still need the point-by. If you don't want somebody to pass at the apex, don't point'em by.

Regardless, if he's that slow and uncomfortable, why is he in the advanced group?

 

pass looked great to me. sounds like somebody needs a waaaambulance.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crack Monkey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Regardless, if he's that slow and uncomfortable, why is he in the advanced group?</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

It looked clean but I wouldn't do it because what if he didn't see you coming by as he is turning in etc? Personally it's not worth the risk of damage for just an HPDE event. But that's just me and I'm a chicken.

And no long sleeve shirt?!

 

There was no point. In NASA-VA if there is no point there is no pass.

If your passing rules are the same as ours then you made an illegal pass and he has every right to believe it was dive-bombing.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ak &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">And no long sleeve shirt?! </TD></TR></TABLE>

NASA as a collective whole seems to be loosening up on the long sleeves. NASA-VA doesn't require them all the time either.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mike C &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">pass looked great to me. sounds like somebody needs a waaaambulance.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Looked clean to me, he is just upset because he got shown up by someone with half of the cylinders he has

 

He was a couple feet off his apex for the right and a couple miles off for the left and if he thinks that's the right line he needs to go back to school. The only leg he has to stand on is that he didn't point you by but if that's the group where you're supposed to know where the line is and he doesn't give it to you when he's 20 feet away from his apex, well, shame on him.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crack Monkey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Does your NASA region not use point-bys?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes and no.

Yes, when there's a basically a HPDE only group. But, there were a lot of other race groups out...some of which joined the HPDE groups.

The rule we tend to use is, "wait for a point-by, unless it's obvious that the slower car is allowing a pass".

Although from a different perspective, I could have waited after that turn and attempted a pass in the short straight after. But, I only saw an issue with a 158whp car trying to pass a +300whp car in a straight.

I don't think the guy in the Camaro was in the "wrong", per se. I just think there was a misunderstanding from both of us. From my view, he looked to have moved over and allowed the pass. From his, some crazy kid (i look young) in his honda dive-bombed him in a turn. I apologized seeing how he might have felt... but, looking at the video, it wasn't a "dangerous" pass. If I waited another 2 seconds, it could have been bad.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Driven &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The rule we tend to use is, "wait for a point-by, unless it's obvious that the slower car is allowing a pass".</TD></TR></TABLE>

From the camera's perspective it definitely looked like he was allowing a pass.

 

NASA-OH doesnt use point bys. If you want to make the pass happen, just leave room on the inside, or stay on line down the straight.... its really not an issue.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">NASA-OH doesnt use point bys. </TD></TR></TABLE>

...for certain run groups.

 

I would not have taken that pass in the turn with out a point by... I would have waited for a straight away.

 

It looked like a good pass to me. I would have done the exact same thing.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Evil Drew M &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There was no point. In NASA-VA if there is no point there is no pass.

If your passing rules are the same as ours then you made an illegal pass and he has every right to believe it was dive-bombing.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i agree. it would have been a fine pass if you guys were racing. but its hpde. it was totally safe, but from what i saw, you accelerated into the inside, which prompted him to move out even further. probably why he said you "dive bombed" him. honestly tho, only thing hurt was his ego so no big deal.

also consider that you came up to him within one turn. to him, you probably appeared out of nowhere, causing him to react more cautiously. would have been better to at least waited another turn once your presence was firmly established.

 

Here is the problem in HPDE. There is no way of knowing when they register what skill level do they have. IMNSHO, that guy has no business running in the advance group. You should have brought this to the group attention and show the tape. Anybody in the right mind would have known that he is the one that might cause danger to others.

When we go into advance group, we have a mind set and expect everyone is pretty much in the same level of skill. To have someone who doesn't know what they are doing out there can really cause a big accident.

 

In light of the rule your event had about using a "N" for no pass in the corners and he did not have one, then he off by many feet from the apex line would indicate that he was letting you by. The place where you passed was a left right sequence. How could he be on line for the second part right hander if he is way off on the right? I would have preferred a point by there but like you say if you were getting ready to hit a straight you probably wanted to get it done before he out accelerates you down the straight.

Barry H.

 

Looked good to me. (we don't need point by's in nor-cal).

The only thing that I saw was he looked to be off line (maybe doing a really late apex). when someone goes off line like that I wonder what there skill level is and if they would see me trying to pass them..

I think he was just less experienced (does not have good 360 degree vision), and not used to someone passing him in a corner.

isent dive bombing basicly out braking somone into a corner?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95tegLSS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">isent dive bombing basicly out braking somone into a corner? </TD></TR></TABLE>
taking the inside and outbraking... that's how i see it.

There was some talk about passing someone who is under braking as well. I don't think i've ever done this in a HPDE...but, this turn doesn't require any braking whatsoever.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDMTYPER &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I would have done the exact same thing. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Me too. You lifted and feathered a bit and appeared to be heads-up about where he was. He was waaaay out there, so I'd recognize that as giving me room to pass.

However, my $.02..... get out of HPDE and go racing. Earn your positions.