Hiya,
I'm brand new to this forum and to the whole Honda scene so I was hoping that some of you could help by giving me info on the Honda cars and more importantly, the Honda engines I've posted in this topic because, being a new user, I can't post in general chat yet and I was mainly looking at buying a Civic or maybe an Integra.
At the minute I have a Peugeot 205 GTI with the MI16 engine (1.9 16v 160/170Bhp, the car weighs roughly 880Kg's). The 205 GTI is well known for its great handling (I don't think you get these in America?) and with the Mi16 engine and light weight body its a pretty quick little car. It will probably cross the line at around 14.6 to 14.9 at around 94Mph.
So, I was looking for a replacement to my 205 and I thought I'd look into the Hondas, see what all the fuss is about
Generaly, I know nothing about Hondas other than the higher spec engines have V-Tec and they rev really high Idealy, I want to upgrade in every department over my 205 GTI so I want a car that will handle really well and an engine that will be capable of mid to low 14's without doing "too much" tuning.
Oh, I'm in the UK by the way, we only get Civics with 1.6l V-tec (160Bhp) engines (apart from the Civic Type-R which is way too expensive for me) and the Integras have 1.8l V-tec (187Bhp). I'm not sure which have the 2.0l engines but the high end Preludes have the 2.2l V-tec lumps (190Bhp?)
Cheers

 

I'm pretty sure that a TON of people are going to chime in here. But before they do I'll give you the standard H-T answer:

Buy a 92-95 hatch and drop a B18 into it. That's pretty much what everybody on here is going to tell you. Then you also have the guys that swear by their D16's and they're going to tell you to turbo the thing and blow away anybody and everybody else.

 

which integras have 187bhp over there?

d

 

The 1.8 V-tec Integra type-R's are 187Bhp as standard.
Thanks for the advice IslandSI, just one thing whats a B18 engine and which model has them and same for the D16?
I'm not looking to go as far as to turbo an engine - although I would like to With my 205 all I've done is fitted a performance filter, exhaust, throttle body and pressure regulator. I'm not looking to go much further than this with the Honda but maybe cams and a bit of head work would be ok but I don't want to go as far as a turbo conversion. What do these two engines make as standard (D16 and B18)? and what sort of power can you make from them without having to go to the extent of turbos etc.
Thanks

 

welcome to H-T . just familiarize yourself with the ToS and you're golden.

 

Sorry, ToS?

 

terms of service, at the top of each board section there are a ton of Stickied threads that cantain the board rules, and a vast wealth of great information.

Also, if you spec questions, try using the search feature. More often than not, the question has been answered and you can get a lot of questions answered easy.

Best way I can think to get a honda into 14's would be to go with that integra type R motor (engine code b18c5). Build up the head a little bit with the valvtrain and cams, standard Intake/Header/Exhaust and you should have some decent numbers.

As said before, a lot of people like putting that motor in to a 92-95 civic hatchback (maybe find a Type R since those are also decent motors, if not any hatch is fine) because they are light weight, and have a large amount of mods ~ Almost all integra parts bolt right in with no problems.

Next I would definatly loose some weight from the vehicle, most hondas can loose a good deal of weight pretty easily. This will help get you to lower 14's.

As for suspension, a big choice around here is Ground Control Coils with either Koni shocks or AGX Blues or Whites, Tein also makes a great product. Combined with a good front Uper Control Arm and rear camber pieces, you will have a great handling car.

 

It really depends on how much money you want to spend and how much work you want to do. If you can afford an Integra Type R, you will pull 14's stock. There is a member on this board that pulled a 14.3 with a near stock Type R. The other members on here have kindly chimed in and suggested a swap, but I don't know if they realize that you get a nice motor stock in the form of your VTi. If you could pick one of them up, put on an aftermarket performance intake, exhaust header, and exhaust system and a nice set of tires, you can easily meet your goal of 14's. Good luck, and welcome

 

Thanks alot lads - these Hondas seem quicker than I thought I've had a quick look around and there seem to be lots of good tuning parts available - with my previous cars tuning parts were alot more sparse. For example, with my Mi16, the throttle body I'm using is from a Golf 1.8 20v Turbo which just happens to fit but is much bigger. There are no after market throttle bodys to buy unless you go for the Jenvey style quad throttle bodys. The Hondas seem to have plenty of nice parts to choose from
So I want a 92-95 Civic hatch and then a B16 (1.8 V-tec) engine. So with an exhaust, performance intake, uprated throttle body and a bit of head work I should see little over 200Bhp (187Bhp as standard).
The only thing now is... which Civic do I go for? wouldn't I need one of the higher end Civics so that the running gear will be fine under the power of the bigger engine? or do most people just use all the Integra parts? (driveshafts, hubs, gear box etc etc.)
As much info as possible please
Thanks alot so far!
Oh, pics and threads of other people who have built such a car would be great.
Thanks

 

if you're just coming into the honda world.....i was new too just a couple years ago. if you're a car guy, it will not take you that long to know all the basics.

 

The B16 is a 1.6 liter while the B18 is a 1.8 liter. Also if you're doing a motor swap you might as well get a full swap with the tranny already bolted up to the engine.

 

just continue to do more research. i say don't rush into buying stuff until you really know what you are aiming for

 

B18C1 with either a B16 or a Type-R tranny y0!

 

Cheers, if anyone could help with the questions I posted above, that would be great.
Cheers

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IslandSi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Then you also have the guys that swear by their D16's and they're going to tell you to turbo the thing and blow away anybody and everybody else.</TD></TR></TABLE>


lol

 

were you referring to the civic type R b16b engine rated at 185hp?

d

 

Erm, the UK Civic Type-R's are all 2.0l 16v V-tec and are 197Bhp. I did accidently type B16 insted of B18 earlyer though - I ment the 1.8 16v V-tec (Integra type-R 187Bhp).
Still waiting for answers if anyone can help?
Cheers

 

there used to be a civic type R 1.6l at 185hp at least in japan.

Curious that the itr 1.8 is a mere 187 bhp over there tho. Isn't bhp slightly higher than hp, like "ps". That engine is 195hp here and 200ps in Japan; some say its 210ps, with the 4-1 header.

I'm not sure what questions you need answered still, the search feature here can answer about anything. What else, specifically do you need to know?

d


Modified by daver at 10:33 PM 11/8/2004

 

Sorry, I didn't mention, I put one or two questions above in my other posts. I just wanted to know, what would be the ideal Civic to start with (or doesn't it matter)? - I was thinking in terms of running gear etc or do you simply use the Inegra parts? Whats envolved with swapping the engines? is it just a direct swap?
Without going as far as forced indutction or multiple throttle bodys, what are good mods for the B18 and what sort of power and performance can you expect?
Cheers

 

i think you've got the basics answered, '92-'95 hatch, preferably cx or dx to keep it light. b series integra engines will bolt right in. All the other details can be simply found with the search function here.

check my sig. My civic just has basic bolt ons along with the jdm gsr engine.

d

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IslandSi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm pretty sure that a TON of people are going to chime in here. But before they do I'll give you the standard H-T answer:

Buy a 92-95 hatch and drop a B18 into it. That's pretty much what everybody on here is going to tell you. Then you also have the guys that swear by their D16's and they're going to tell you to turbo the thing and blow away anybody and everybody else.</TD></TR></TABLE>

As much as I want to slap you for this response...it's 100% true

 

Thanks Daver, things are becoming a little clearer
Very sorry for my ignorance but when you say a CX or a DX Civic - which Civic are you refering to? The only Civics I know about other than the low end ones are the 1.5 ESi's and then the 1.6 VTi's.
Your car seems impressively quick for such little mods I thought my 205 Mi16 was quick but it would never run anything near 14.1! 14.7/14.8 is about the best I could hope for on a good day
Are there any common (must have) tuning mods which aren't that obvious with the B18 engines? for example, with my Mi16, the VAG throttle body is a good cheap mod with decent results.
Cheers

 

here's some info on usdm '92 '95 models available. No doubt UK models are entirely different, and i don't know if you'll find too much info on them here. This is copy pasted from a hard to find thread some years back .................................................. ......................

1992 Honda Civic:
CX hatchback: 2094lbs.
VX hatchback: 2094lbs.
DX hatchback: 2178lbs.
Si hatchback: 2326lbs.
So that's the weights of each vehicle STOCK.
Notice the exact same weight for both the CX and VX? This should dispell those "VX is the lightest" arguments. In fact, in theory would you not think the CX would be even lighter since the VX had light-*** alloy 13 inch wheels while the CX had heavy-*** steel wheels? This would leave me to believe a few different things:
Body for body (which matters more because you swap out the wheels anyways, I mean 13'' wheels, come on!) I think this may mean the CX is lighter still. The only thing I can think that would make the VX the sane weight but has much lighter wheels might be that the VTEC-E motor weighs more than the CX 8-valve motor.
Another thing is the gas tanks.
CX and VX has a 10 gallon tank, while the DX and Si have the 11.9 gallon tank. Keep in mind these specs are striaght from Honda, so regardless how much gas you've squeezed in your CX, VX, DX, or Si it dosn't matter. Honda probably only measures TANK volume, not the filler and what's already in the fuel lines, etc.
So you also see that the DX is 84lbs. more than the CX/VX. Why would this be? Here's what I came up with:
Bigger fuel tank - tank is steel, so bigger = heavier
Rear wiper/washer
More tar - seen it myself. DX has more tar than the CX/VX.
Side moldings - plastic, but still weighs more than the non-existent side moldings on the CX/VX
Rear cargo cover std. it weighs something, right?
That just might be the difference. Things like the cargo cover and tar, rear washer/wiper can be deleted to get closer to CX/VX, so it's not a huge deal.
You also see that the Si is one heavy PIG compared to it's other hatchback brothers.
One more hilarious thing here for you guys with Si hatches that say "coupes are heavy, that's why I have a hatch" which I see often, and used to say myself.
How's this strike you:
1992 Civic 4-door with manual tranny:
DX 4-door: 2275lbs.
LX 4-door: 2319lbs.
Why did I bold the LX 4-door weight?
Because it has power windows, doorlocks, cruise control, power steering, etc. and is STILL lighter than the Si hatchback! So what do you think of the coupes now? If the 4-door is lighter, what about the 2-door coupes? The DX coupe is a good deal lighter than the Si hatchback.
Don't get all pissy if you own an Si - I used to have one, but after getting beaten by others in CX, VX, and DX hatches with less whp I sold it to build up a CX hatchback.
So, does anyone else on H-T here have this kind of info on the 1994-1995 hatchbacks? I know they weigh more because they added another airbag in 1994-1995, and some Si hatches came with ABS too. All that **** adds weight.
One last thing to keep in mind here:
These cars were weighed BONE STOCK.
This means:
No A/C - was NOT std. on any hatchback in 1992
No radio - again radios were NOT std. on ANY hatches in 1992
Only Si had 2 mirrors std. Add the weight of a mirror if you got 2 on your CX/VX/DX
ONLY the Si had powersteering - the DX auto did too, but I didn't list that one. I listed the manual, which had no p/s
Stock wheels. VX had lightweight 13'' alloys, CX/DX had 13'' steels, Si had heaviest 14'' steelies with wheel covers
So think about all those things that we can take out of our cars to get the weight down. This gives you a basic idea of what your car should weigh with no A/C, p/s, etc.
Also think about what ADDS weight to your car. Stereo, SWAP, bigger brakes, swaybars, bigger wheels, strut bars, etc. So don't think your 1992 CX weighs 2094lbs. if you have 2 mirrors, A/C, radio, SWAP, etc. You might be over the stock weight.

Ok, here in front of me I have a 94' Civic dealer sales brochure.
The weights:
Hatchbacks manual/auto
94 CX 2108/NA
94 DX 2178/2264
94 VX 2094/NA
94 Si 2390/NA
Coupes manual/auto
94 DX 2231/2326
94 EX 2443/2502
This, I would think is for the basic models. Si and EX were the only models that came with 14" steel wheels. Rear disc brakes were only available of EX's w/ the ABS package.
Ok that sums it up for the 1994 model year. Unfortunately I dont have the 4-door sales brochure.
I myself have an Si, and the difference in weight from that to a VX being 300 lbs is worth it to me. That 300 is only good for about .2-.3 in the 1/4 mile, and then driver skill comes into play--I dont care who you are and how much money is invested in your ride---it ALWAYS comes down to driver skill. I think I have good skill for drag racing, just look at my sig. Most people still dont believe me!!


.................................................. .................................................. .....

My best advice would be to get the lightest model of hatch you can, and drop in a integra type R engine as a first choice, or a gsr model second, and a 2.0l b20 (crv, orthia, sm-x)non vtec engine 3rd (my preferences for bolt in options). An h22a prelude engine if you don't mind some hacking, or a k20a RSX engine if you like to spend money (for non bolt in options).

Tuning mods? I don't think a throttle body upgrade is a must have for any swap setup. For the "bolt-in" engine choices, just the proper ecu's are "necessary". gsr engines can use the gsr ecu, itr engine swappers usually go with a p28 ecu chipped, b20 engines go well with an integra non vtec ecu, preferebly chipped. Other than that, a good 2 1/4" free flow exhaust minimum, with a high flow cat.

Pick out your chassis of choice, and figure out which engine you want from searching people results and opinions. there should be some easy to find threads for 1/4 mile times with various setups.


d

 

Wow! cheers mate, thats brilliant! lots of help there and lots of stuff to remember.
I'll definatly be going for the Integra type R engine if thats the ideal choice.
Are there any good web sites I could browse for after market performance parts for the B18? (preferably one that will ship to the UK )
So it seems that the Civic model names are different over here compared to America. There are no CX, VX, DX or whatever the others are could you (or anyone) just give me quick specs to the American models and then I'll try and match them up with the UK models.
Also, just to clear this up - what drive shafts and other running gear parts did you use? surely the stock running gear won't be able to run safely with a B18 engine will it? or are all the Integra parts a straight swap?
I think it might be worth swapping to the Integra running gear for the bigger brakes
Thanks again, lots of good info there mate

 

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