I think most people on here know they're not going to be the next Steph, Lisa, Erick, or Rado. The amount of money, time, knowledge, and training these teams are working with is un-real and the chances of someone doing that are slim. Sorry to kill any dreams out there.

Lets say this... you can be in the NDRA and NHRA Import Rrag Racing Series, but you know you'll only finish somewhere between 4th and 10th in overall points and maybe as high as 3rd in some races. Would you still do it? The step to go from that to winning many races and being in the top 3 is HUGE and the difference in money is astrtonomical. Lets say you could finish 4th to 10th for a 10th of the cost of the top 3 guys. Still interested?

A great example is Joe Demaree. He has ran almost 200 passes in 2 years with a best of a 8.8 @ 165 mph on GAS. Ask him how many engines he has gone through and I bet you'll be blown away. He might not have the money like Gardella (how many engines has he gone through in 2004?), but he's still doing great and always putting up a good fight.

This has come about from a conversation I had with a well known leader in the import racing industry. He's thinking of marketing HIGH quality products that LAST towards the serious racer that doesn't have a million dollars and knows he won't finish 1st every race, but is happy with 3rd, or 4th, or 5th, etc (top 10).

Thoughts?

 

Well, my first thought would be that if you never think that you can ever win, then you probably never will...

However, dealing with the larger teams having better backing than you... well, if you never get out there and push, then you'll never have the opportunity to be a well funded/sponsored team either. Many businesses don't necessarily want to sponsor a team that isn't really trying. I think that it is entirely possible for someone with a lower budget to come into the import drag scene and do very well, and even possibly turn into another steph, or lisa...

I'm giving it my shot next year. Will i finish first, or anywhere near it? who knows.. but i'm going to give it my best shot, thats for sure... i'm not going to just lay down and submit to a higher funded team just cause i might think that i can't beat them... its not all about cubic dollars afterall.

However, to answer your question, even if i knew flat-out that i would not be in the top 3, i'd still do it. This is way too much fun racing... the other option of just sitting at home and hitting refresh on a webpage all day on Sunday isn't that appealing Its pretty much the same thought process that keeps a team like Minardi out there on the F1 circuit

 

First of all those players didn't get where they are in one or two seasons and everyone has just as much chance of making it as the next guy if they keep at it. Within reason of course... You can't be stupid and make it where they are. All sanctioning bodies should have classes to match every level of racer so it is affordable for all. I think for the most part this is reality. The problem lies in guys moving into say Hot Rod after a season or two of street classes. I think people try to bite off more than they can chew and then get pissed when they run out of money or can't make it to the next race.

As to your next point "if you ended up mid-field would you still do it" Isn't that 95% of the guys here? It depends why you race. I guess I don't understand why you even ask the question. Are you wondering if you should do it even if you don't hit top 3?

As to your last point about who would be willing to buy parts that would just earn top 10 position but you wouldn't make top 3. I think that's nuts! How could a company sell parts that are 2nd rate? Lets take cams for instance, you couldn't build a cam with crappy steel or people will break them and not finish at all. The only thing you could do to lower cost is spend less time and money designing the profiles and build a crappy design on purpose and then charge less for it. Good luck selling that to this market. The slogan could be "Buy our cams you'll finish 5th" Not trying to be an *** but what do you mean by the last paragraph? Give me an example of how it would work.

 

I didn't say the parts would be 2nd rate. I said "HIGH quality products that LAST". Notice the capitalized words. They would make great power. But remember, HP isn't everything to go fast. Maybe some people don't understand the types of things going on within the top teams and their engines.

These products would be better than the typical AEM, DC, JUN cams, Skunk2 cams, stock shelf JE piston, etc. They are more expensive than those also. Now, there is a difference bewteen a good set of pistons made for racing and a custom $2K+ set of race pistons that some #1 guy uses. Get what I'm saying? Parts that are better than the "good stuff" now but not 1 off pieces and the crazy expensive stuff the #1 guys are running. I'm not talking crap parts for cheaper. They are an in-betweeen part. Between regular run of the mill parts and the custom pro stuff.

You'd make a TON more power than the kid that just maxed out 10 credit cards at the local import shop on the typical AEM, Skunk2, JE, etc parts and just a little less power than the #1 and #2 pro guys.

 

"winning or even "placing" was never in my vocabulary for building mandy. for me, we built mandy for personal goals. i wanted to make 600+whp...did it, and then some made 623 conservatively. i wanted to break 10s...did it, and then some 10.6's with pleanty more in her. and the last thing, i want out of this is my shoot...and i can call it a day. getting "running up" at fontana battle of the imports was unexpected and icing on the cake. and goes to show that u never know what can happen when racing...i am the epitamy of lil guys and i was happier than a motherf*cker getting runner up. i am still stoked to this day having the priveledge of lining up next to big names such as marty ladwig and gary gardella.

but right now i'm at the point of exhaustion. exhausted of a weekend of racing. when its more exhausting that it being fun...its no fun when ur alone on the track, trying to work on **** when u don't have a pitcrew to support u. sh4d was awsome enough to help me at the track...thanks.

funding is a big factor in my exhaustion. i can't afford racing everyweekend especially out of town races. i already feel the pain from races that are only 2 hours away. i can only imagine the costs of racing out of the county...damn... and lets not forget about parts braking because the faster u go, parts will break....man, i don't even want to go there...

it sucks being a lil guy...

 

As far as "the little guy"goes, I think I'm as little as they come . Next season I think we are going to be one of the only two car teams that are are going to run Nopi and most Nhra races focusing on bracket racing. Nopi Chic and Bracket 14 is going to be home to us. One day we'll be up there with the big dogs

We can't go big, We don't wanna go home so...........we're in the middle!

Racing is not a hobby but a lifestyle

 

At one time or another every BIG guy was a LITTLE guy.
Hard work, determination, talent, and a desire to WIN! is what attracts media, and the likes of sponsors. Or the shops to cut you a break on parts or the free parts deals. Every little thing adds up and gets you to a point where someday before you know it damn, your there doing it. People start to notice what your doing. And if you work it right, you can take it to the next level.
Good luck, hard work and determination, is what gets it all going! You can learn to be a better driver, mechanic or crew guy. Just keep at it. Have fun! And if it all works out you too can be a BIG guy


Me I am still looking for that shot, and helping who I can! Good luck to everybody

Charlie

 

I think the little Guy is better off in some ways... I'd be pissed to be the guy driving a top car that was pushing the boundaries that ran record passes then couldnt back them up due to mechanical failure etc... Most of the little guys run a reliable Extreme set-up to last a season not a meet... I think in some cases you have just as much chance of winning no matter the budget.. Even the top guys red-light against the slowest cars sometimes...

 

if you or anyone goes into a race with the attitude this guy has . you better just pack it up and go home......... you should always unload the car thinking i will win this one period!!!!! look at Chris Rado he is probably one of the most backed cars in Sport Compact Racing...........he is doing real well RIGHT...........

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by crewmember &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you or anyone goes into a race with the attitude this guy has . you better just pack it up and go home......... you should always unload the car thinking i will win this one period!!!!! look at Chris Rado he is probably one of the most backed cars in Sport Compact Racing...........he is doing real well RIGHT...........</TD></TR></TABLE>

hmmm i'm not sure u know chris rado, but he's friggin baller!...us lil guys don't have nearly the funding that he has...not even 1/5 of his kind of funding...

 

Ok now I get it. That makes sense.

 

i know him personally i know he's a baller get it .............he has all the backin anyone could ask for and still can't get down the track!!!!

 

THE POINT IS... not everyone is going to get the big $200K+ sponsorship. Lets all live in the real world and admit that money = speed. If you have the money, you can get the parts and team to build a bad *** motor and have the best team there is. Not everyone has that, nor will they ever. Some people realize this and are happy just racing and being in the top 10. They still want to win, who wouldn't, but they realize it takes LOTS of money to be with the big dogs.

The key phrase here is "A little bit slower than #1 for a tenth of the cost" In some classes that means less than a second off. Lots of opportunities for the pro to mess up and the little guy take the win.

Lisa, Steph, Rado, etc I bet spend well over $250K a year on the engine, car, travel, paying the whole team, fixing broken stuff, etc. Do you have that kind of money? How about $25K and be in the top 10?

Now, back to the original topic... Do you guys think there is a big market for race parts that are for the guy that wants to be a serious racer but doesn't have the $2K to spend on pistons? I think some of the guys on here that know how much money and what kind of parts go into a #1 team car will understand what I'm saying.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ComposiMo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm giving it my shot next year. Will i finish first, or anywhere near it? who knows.. but i'm going to give it my best shot, thats for sure... i'm not going to just lay down and submit to a higher funded team just cause i might think that i can't beat them... its not all about cubic dollars afterall.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I got money riding on you so you better ,

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ranta18 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> This has come about from a conversation I had with a well known leader in the import racing industry. He's thinking of marketing HIGH quality products that LAST towards the serious racer that doesn't have a million dollars and knows he won't finish 1st every race, but is happy with 3rd, or 4th, or 5th, etc (top 10).

Thoughts?</TD></TR></TABLE>

If there high quality parts that will last, then serious racers with money will pick them up. Now the price is gonna determine rather or not the serious with less money will pick them up. That's just my thought on it.

 

mike, why dont u be a little more specific on the type of stuff u are referring too.

i understand what u are saying about being funded by less money than others. i find great amount of solice in sittin at the #2 position i am currently in as far as all motor cars in my area. the reason i am pretty happy with #2 is because i know the #1 guy is on his 3rd motor, has 3-4 times the money into his car than i do mine and his car is still 170lbs lighter than my car. food for thought.
EDIT: o yeah and the track he runs at is ALTITUDE CORRECTED.

 

Just for your info Ranta....In St. Louis Joe went 8.6 @ 168 on gas, no nitrous and has never lost an engine in all the years he has been racing.


As for your original question. We ran 5 races this season and didn't make 1 single clean pass down the track until the last race in Chicago. We only qualified for 2 of those races. We knew we didn't have the power to compete, we knew the car was 300lbs overweight...but we still went out to race. Even in our last race the car was not 100%, yet we ran our best times.

And we will be out there fighting next year with a bigger motor and a lighter car. Just because we love the sport and we love to race.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 4piston &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just for your info Ranta....In St. Louis Joe went 8.6 @ 168 on gas, no nitrous and has never lost an engine in all the years he has been racing.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I was 99.9% sure on this, but didn't want to say and be wrong. The H-T flaming would be HUGE. Great job to Joe and his team for that.

Good luck next year with the car.

I didn't intend for this thread to be about the little guy never being able to make it big or telling the little guys to give up. They shouldn't and they can win.

This thread was just probing a market for parts that are just below the custom pieces the pros run and above the "off the shelf" parts out there now.

 

I understand what you're talking about, but can't picture what actual parts you would have. How about some examples? I don't know anyone who runs $2k pistons...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1 2 NV &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i understand what u are saying about being funded by less money than others. i find great amount of solice in sittin at the #2 position i am currently in as far as all motor cars in my area. the reason i am pretty happy with #2 is because i know the #1 guy is on his 3rd motor, has 3-4 times the money into his car than i do mine and his car is still 170lbs lighter than my car. food for thought.
EDIT: o yeah and the track he runs at is ALTITUDE CORRECTED.</TD></TR></TABLE>

not for long sunny... haha j/k My goal this next season is to be right up in the area where both dustin and his buddy are for '05...

 

TO much Reading....

 

---- CLARITY -----

I think I should have re-worded things for everyone to see my point. Lets try this again...

The basic idea is that to be #1 takes expensive parts. Thats a simple fact in racing and I think everyone knows it. The money for the expensive parts to be #1 come from major sponsors. Now... the parts I'm talking about wouldn't be as expensive and of course in turn, not make as much power. These parts are for the racer who loves racing, but is on a budget (say less than $50K) and can go just a little bit slower for a tenth of the cost. These parts are for the guys trying to get that big sponsorship. Parts for the #3 or #4 and below guys trying to show everyone they are serious and show the sponsors why they should give them money. I think there are a lot of these people out there.

Tony - I was just trying to use an example and said $2K pistons. How much would a set of one off totally custom (diameter, pin height, dome, ring land location, etc) pistons from a major manufacturer cost? The parts I am talking about would be pistons, vavles, rods, cams, etc.

 

what the hell kinda "cinderella parts" you got boss?


i belive the little guys still have a chance against all the "corprate dollars"

check out the PRODRAG civic, they are a relativly small team, but their car runs. right out of the box too. cant imagine what its gonna run when they got it all dialed in

i dont see anything on their car that anyone of us here on HT couldnt have. as far as availability to the general public.

 

u should b right there eric. im not changing anything but wheels tires on my car. i have another hatch now just begging to be worked on. i doubt it will run this coming 05 season though.