I will do my own header test...which I have done many, many, many times already.

But I am not going to use a stock ITR...

I am going go use a 225+ All motor, B20VTEC.

What this is going to show is the limitations of each header...because that motor needs to breath HEAVY.

In the great header test, I noticed some brands of headers that were like 1-3 HP apart show up like 15-20 HP apart on one of my B20/VTECS...

So the test is on...I have access to moe than a FEW HyTech headers, and pretty much all other headers I like...which would be...

HyTech
SMSP (which I have 4 of now total)
Toda
JG Edelbrock (Import Builders Modified to 2.5")
JDM DC 4-1 (which is pretty much exactly the same as JDM 4-1 ITR)
Stock ITR Header

I think I might limit the test to those, because all the other brands I tested are either line for line like JDM ITR, or very close...

When I am done building the 5 Fully Built B20/VTEC motors I have going right now, I will do the test, which is about 4 weeks away.

Personally, I don't think John from HyTech cares to much about "prooving" his stuff because he makes all his money from "other" endeavors...

I will make a page for it on http://www.importreview.com

Jeff

 

port / polish that JDM ITR please... thats what a few of us have done and it's proven to increase flow to a fair extent....

 

Jeff, Dont take this the wrong way But I dont think it would be a good idea for you to do as you are Biased since you sell the SMS Headers with your engine packages.
If SMS came out on top people would say you did a better job tuning the SMS than Hytech

 

I think you should throw Spoon in there somewhere since it did so well in the Great Header Test, just to see how well it performs on a heavily modified motor. Just my 2cents.

 

PS I may have a Unbiased test - I just need to contact SMS (Dave) As I already have a Hytech I can borrow

 

You are never going to get an unbiased test. If John loses he'll make excuses. I don't know Dave well enough to know what kind of loser he'd be. Their followers will likely remain unswayed by any results - this is a cult thing.This will never be settled in any meaningful sense.

Scott, who can't wait for the next episode of this exciting drama.....

 

Hey Mike...

I know what your saying...but actually, I don't retail SMSP headers....they only come with my Crated motor packages...

and trust me pal. There are like 10+ members from this board that i will invite to the test...and it will be non-biased...absolutely...

Call all your pals in So-Cal, invite them over...

And even with 10 witnesses, and even thought it was a totally fair test...people are going to talk all nutz and point fingers.

Im not out to please everyone....just to unviel the truth.

I have tested all of them already, but I will do it again, all together to show everyone.

If John himself wants to come over, he is welcome. No problem with that. He is a nice guy, we get along. He has helped me before.

BTW...I am going to tune the car with the DC 4-1 JDm, and then simply bolt all the others on and thats it...no tuning. If anyone has a better idea...please, give me insight...because everyone knows the DC JDM 4-1 isn't going to compete seriously...and it throws a non-bias to use it for complete dyno testing before the others go on.. the difference between my test and the others will be this..

#1 I will overlay ALL graphs over each other with a cursor at 8,000 RPM so you can see actually numbers..
#2 I will display graphs with NO smoothing, and FULL smoothing...
#3 I will display the correction factors....
#4 I will display unocrrected graphs...along with SAE...
(because I guarantee the CF will change during the test at some point and affect the results...)
#5 I will make the lines on the graph very THIN...so you can see it all exactly...

none of this mustang dyno "excel spreadsheet maddness"....

End of story.

Jeff


[Modified by ImportReview, 5:01 AM 12/20/2001]

 

i think we should all just get the $290 jdm dc and spend the money we save (by not buying a $800+ header) on a holiday present for our parents.



haha, gimme more great (insert high dollar whp producing piece here) tests!!!

 

Not to be a party pooper but the diameters would be different than the ones used on an ITR. I believe that both manufacturers make B20 versions which are larger than their B18C versions.

Who is this test for? the ITR owners or B20 owners?...you know Dave and John won't send you the B18 diameters if you run that B20 monster motor of yours right? and so this would render such a test ungeneralizable to the majority of people here.

I guess it would settle the issue of whether their particular approaches to diameters and lengths are similar or different and whether anti-reversion chambers help in cases where you do not have a lot of R&D time and $ for your motor.

Last point: on the issue of copying. I come from the medical field and we have generic drugs and brand name drugs. This is a reality of life. Secondly, sometimes in any area of research, there is a convergence of independent approaches to a single truth. It's not necessarily copying. Look at the F1 car aero packages....they copy each other or they use a very similar layout that was arrived at without the knowledge of what the competition does.

There's no point in pulling the race card out. Just do your thing and beat the guy at the track....the winner is the person who can adapt the quickest to the particular conditions on that particular day. Anyone who races knows this. It's constant research and development of new innovations that makes you the leader. If you stay stagnant with one design it will become eventually obsolete because there are lotsa people trying to build a better mouse trap. I thought we had agreed to this in the last John vs Dave WWI. or do we not learn from history?

 

I think you should throw in the SPOON header as well in your test along with some of the other "big boys" not mentioned like Mugen and Comptech, because many of us either have that header or are considering purchasing one of the 3 headers NOT mentioned as being in the your test. Also seeing that the Spoon and Toda did so well in the first test, let's see those two go neck and neck on that "monster motor" you're gonna use. After the first test many are already jumping on the bandwagon as to what header they will go out and purchase, but lets see if on your 225+ WHP motor, if the results follows the same trend as the first test or not. Good idea on using a motor that is heavily modded and requires heavy breathing, maybe this will help separate the MEN from BOYS.

 

if you invite socal peeps over, im there

 

jeff,

PLease put the JUN header in there as well. I think im not the only one who wants to know how the JUN and the MUGEN will do on a moded car.

 

Michael Delaney makes me laugh out loud.

Dude...pal...the HyTech header and the SMSP headers I have ARE MADE FOR THE B20.

I guess you think I know nothing about anything.

haha.

Dude, your a crack up.

Jeff

 

Jeff,

This is a board for ITR which is discussion for B18C5 engines. I would suggest you to do the test for full build B18C street engines instead. Most ppl here will want to see all way around performance like power, torque and engine response for B18C more than any CRVvtec engines.

Sorry, I am not trying to flame anybody but I do know you built very fast engines but reliability will be an issue. Can I ask how long will your engines last for street application? Cuz my friend did a B20vtec, normal street driving was fine but he brought the car to the circuit and after it head gasket and one set piston ring went.

As you have mentioned that you wanted to dyno headers "you like" why?? Everybody wanted to see results for their favor brand to participate, right ?

Please accept my poor English

 

Jeff-

as you may've noticed, the ITR guys arn't especially interested, but many still are. I, personally, will not be able to sleep until I see how much better the hitech will be over the JDM. Will it justify being almost 3x the price? only time will tell. A big thanks in advance (from a proud b20vtec owner).


Also, thanks to everyone who helped out with the first great header test.

 

Mike will kick your ***............

 

Ron Jeremy will kick your *** Yack


[Modified by Mike K, 9:42 AM 12/20/2001]

 

Yeah, why would you bother using headers designed for a 1.8l motor on a 2.0l setup? Doesnt sound like anything will be proven with that test.

 

Okay I admit it: you know it all Jeff...you know it all. I apologise for displaying my ignorance on the matter. I look forward to seeing result of your header test.


cheers

 

I agree - Since this the ITR forum, having a test for a monster-built B20 Vtec that maybe 3 people here have doesn't make a ton of sense to me. Now a built 1.8 running Toda Bs or Jun 3s would probably be of interest to a lot of folks. It's your time and money, but if it is being done for the benefit of the board, you might as well target what the audience wants to here.

 

Rounding up a built 1.8 or 2.0 is easy. Milton has a built 1.8 w/ a Hytech unit already on it. Maybe he`d be interested. As always, the Hondaclub Crew can help/witness. You know I`ll have the bbq and Keg in back of the Monster Truck, too!

Ryan

 

although im a big fan of the b20..take this **** to the hybrid board...hahaha

im gonna be having the great shiftknob test..please send me all your shift *****..

dont ask how i will test them


honestly though...i wonder who will come out on top?

 

ROCK THE 2.0!!

 

"#1 I will overlay ALL graphs over each other with a cursor at 8,000 RPM so you can see actually numbers..
#2 I will display graphs with NO smoothing, and FULL smoothing...
#3 I will display the correction factors....
#4 I will display unocrrected graphs...along with SAE...
(because I guarantee the CF will change during the test at some point and affect the results...)
#5 I will make the lines on the graph very THIN...so you can see it all exactly...

none of this mustang dyno "excel spreadsheet maddness"...."


Can't wait to see how you handle all of this. So what kind of dyno are you using. Whats the correction factor. You should have a basic formula that just needs some test day variables. What is it? No smoothing? How will you explain all the dips and peaks. Will you just explain how a dyno works or some other story? Thin lines along with all the headers layed out on top of each other. Man I can't wait to see how you handle this.
"excel spreadsheet maddness".... So your going to scan in the printouts of the dyno? Explain how you'll do all of this please so all dyno owners will know from now on. Thanks

 

screw honda's they all suck....1.8 or 2.0 don't matter!!! f-a-honda!! 1.5l's RULE


[Modified by chad, 9:07 PM 12/21/2001]