Attention Honda Challenge competitors: a new revision of the rulebook has been released. This revision features the finalization of lots of things people have been asking for:

1. Detailed description of our modified 13/13 contact rule, including incident scenarios and probation descriptions

2. Revised (and hopefully finalized) hybrid rules. Includes clarification of some terminology, Thanks to Pete, Jack, Chad and some others, we think we have a set of Hybrid rules that accomodate common hybrids.

3. Revised wheel width restriction. Now everyone is able to run a 7" wide rim, just like PS and IT. H1 have no such limitation.

4. Addition of external coil systems (such as those Crane and MSD things) to mimmick PS and IT rules. Thanks Crack Monkey for giving me clarity on this at VIR last weekend.

I think that's it - barring some huge thing that we missed, this should be the final revision. Thanks to all for their patience in getting this thing sorted out. And as always, Scott and I can both be reached via info@honda-challenge.com if you've got any questions.

 

 

Transponders are REQUIRED for timing and scoring.
In order to perform "Hot Pulls" and maximize green flag racing, tow hooks front and rear should be required. Most Hondas have factory hooks that are acceptable.
SCCA is requiring a "race" seat for ALL classes for the driver. You should consider this.
Glass sunroofs ARE NOT PERMITTED per current NASA safety rules or SCCA safety rules..

Grumpy


[Modified by Grumpy, 4:07 PM 12/17/2001]

 

If you are building a dual purpose race car, remember that race seat belts are not DOT approved and the stock seat belts must be retained to be street legal.

Grumpy

 

Also remember that each race will have Supplemental Rules and Regulations that are additions to the published rules. They will contain, among other things, track specific requirements such as sound maximums.

 

check, check and check

 

How will you be enforcing the "no data acquisition" rule? I have a DA system which also serves as all of my guages.

I can obvously just NOT pull and analyze the data, but I can't just pull the whole system out.

 

Glass sunroofs - what is the rule? Currently the rules state that if the glass is left in place both sides need to be covered in tape and metal straps placed across the roof of the car. Is this no longer an acceptable method of securing the sunroof?

2.0 Safety Requirements

- Glass sunroofs must either be removed and the hole permanently covered, or
covered with tape (both sides) and held in place with a minimum of two metal strips
bolted or riveted to the roof of the vehicle. Metal sunroofs can remain but must be
bolted or riveted in place.

In regards to a "race" seat - what constitutes one? Are any of the standard issue units acceptable (ie: Kirkey, Corbeau, Cobra etc.)?

Also, what is the rule regarding batteries? Must it remain stock or can any be used provided it stays within the stock location?


[Modified by Cobra, 11:38 AM 12/17/2001]

 

Some might argue that a video camera showing the guages is also a "data acquisition" device.

 

Hmmm. So you can use a turbo on a hybrid.

"Exhaust headers may be used. Any exhaust system may be used." (Turbo exhaust side is just a fancy exhaust)
"Any air intake in front of the throttle body may be used " (Turbo intake side is all before the throttle body)
"Modified oil pans may be used" (So you could run an oil return line if needed)
"Engines may be balanced and/or blueprinted" (So you could make one that'd live)
"The engine, from the top of the engine block “down” to the ground, MUST be
constructed entirely of Honda parts." (Should be able to find OEM low compression pistons)
“Upward” of the engine block, cylinder head preparation is free" (Big injectors are OK. Could also open up the combustion chamber to bring compression down)

Too late to start for '02 now. But maybe for '03.

 

There goes my advantage of being able to run 245 tires.. Geez guys give the one driving a prelude VS ITR's a break...

 

Oh you mean Fowler?

 

Glass sunroofs have always been banned in NASA and SCCA. The Honda rules makers added their own rule which is contrary to the NASA rule. This must be reconciled as soon as possible.

Grumpy

 

So what needs to be done to cars with a glass sunroof?

 

I don't have the SCCA GCR here at work, but I seem to remember that you must remove the glass, and fill the hole with a permanently mounted metal panel. When I get home I'll check for more details. Pain in the butt, eh?

 

Umm...no. No forced induction. At all. Ever. Nowhere does it say in the rulebook that you can add a turbocharger, supercharger, Tornado Air system, electric supercharger, or ANY forced induction.

By the interpretation you've used, could we bolt a jet engine to the bumper, and claim that it's part of the bumper?



(Edit - change rant to smiley happy thing)


[Modified by krshultz, 5:17 PM 12/17/2001]

 

Removed and replaced with metal of the same material as the rest of the roof.

Question about "Data Acquisition" devices - is this rule intended to limit the use of real-time telemetry only, or is it intended to disallow Hot Lap timers, memory tachs, camcorders, and other common (nearly ubiquitous) devices?

 

And I rivet the metal down? Weld it? Glue it?

And Karl - I asked a few questions which weren't regarding loopholes. Only 1 got answered . . .


[Modified by Cobra, 4:02 PM 12/17/2001]

 

nasa does allow the use of NOS in their events....hmmmmm...how close are nasa and hondachallenge??? JK!!!

 

Sorry for the rant, the input's actually welcome. It just seems like the more specific we make the rules (we're up to just under 10 pages now), the more questions we get. Anyway, let me see if I can answer, to the best of my ability, some of the legitimate questions.

1. Data acquisition systems. Honestly this hadn't crossed my mind - that people might use part of their system as part of their gauges. What we're trying to avoid is permitting high dollar real-time data aquisition stuff from being a factor, if that helps.

2. Glass sunroofs. This has been an issue for a while - and frankly, I got so wrapped up in getting the hybrid rules sorted out, it kind of slipped off my radar screen. Here's the dilemma. Showroom stock cars (which we allow in and are encouraging to participate) must retain their sunroofs AFAIK - glass or otherwise. Nobody with a showroom stock GS-R is going to rip it out to run in our series. So we've got to figure out a way to handle this between us, Cobetto, and Grumpy.

As far as attaching the panel...any secure method of attaching the thing should be just fine. If it's not secure, it won't pass tech. If you want to get fancy, have a body shop fabricate something and paint it to match. If you want the quick and cheap method, pop rivet something on.

3. Race seats - anything you can think of should be acceptable. With SCCA (and presumably NASA, though I haven't seen a 2002 rulebook yet), an FIA approved seat doesn't require a seatback brace. But a hinged seat will require such a brace. Trust me - after seeing a friend's seat snap at CMP on impact, this is a big deal.

4. Batteries: I don't really know to be honest. When I don't know, the answer is always "whatever is in the NASA Pro Sedan rulebook." My initial guess will be any battery that will start the car is fine. After all...how many of us with cars older than three years *don't* have an aftermarket battery?

See...what we don't want to do is have this rulebook become a duplicate of the preexisting NASA rulebook...so a lot of stuff, like the descriptions of what a race seat is, and the roll cage dimensions, were intentionally left out.

--Karl, who will be writing version 121701a tonight...

 

um, this may be a stupid idea since I haven't looked too closely at the roof design but would it be possible to just replace the glass part with sheet metal of the same size/shape? Basically transform the GS-R's moon-roof into a sun-roof? If it is possible, I can see a business opportunity in the form of a conversion kit...

 

Ok I will await the verdict from the Cobetto/Grumpy/Shultz debate regarding the glass panels.

 

Hmm, not sure what the GCR says about glass roof panels.

17.25 of GCR states:
"Glass sunroofs MUST be removed"
and then:
"Specification books take precedence over GCR"

17.1.3.D.6 of SSS states:
"Sunroofs must be retained on vehicle". (Does not specify material, everywhere else in the GCR, there are specific rules regarding glass sunroofs).

17.1.4.D.8.f of ITCS states:
"Glass sunroofs MUST be removed. All sunroofs may be replaced with panel or replacement skin of same material as original surrounding roof material."

Is the lack of the statement "glass sunroofs must be removed" in the SSS an oversight? Or is it specifically written that way so that glass must be retained (remember, class specs over-rule GCR).

In the ITCS, glass "must" be removed. But "may" be reskinned. Does this mean the the hole resulting from removal need not be filled (must implies requirement, may implies option).

Grumpy? Anybody?

(yes, i know common sense would be to remove all glass roofs. but not sure if this is what the GCR allows)

 

Doesn't say anything about changing from OEM spark plugs, either.

I've written rules and instructions for other things myself, and know how you feel. Always folks ready to pick holes in whatever you do, and each clarification just adds more questions. Like:

"Brakes may be ducted from existing holes in the vehicle’s bodywork"
So separate scoops, or just the open ends of the ducts, mounted under the bumper would not be in compliance?

Sorry, but I've spent a lot of time reviewing other people's rules and instructions recently , and sometimes it's hard to quit.

 

Just for clarification, we did no such thing.

I feel better now.