Sorry, the topic may not be appropriate given it's the holidays, but I'm just so excited, I had to share.....

The SCCA has finally created a street touring (SOLO) class for the Type R's and others to play in, STX. It's provisional, but is a start. Details are published in Fastrack http://www.scca.org/news/fastrack/02-02.pdf

 

Thanks for the g00d news Jeff

yoshi - who hopes STX will be available at the socal swing of the Nat Tour

 

Yeah, have fun with the DSMs, Cambirds and Mustangs (with added LSDs) on unlimited width wheels

 

Cool

 

Re-read the rules. The STS rules still are used, with a handful of exceptions (cats, motor mounts, brakes, etc.) That means, the 7.5 in wheel width rule still applies.

 

Actually it says it wheel width restrictions will be retained from STS.

OK this is redundant now.. Jeff beat me to it!!!!

It could be a great class!


[Modified by StageOne, 11:21 AM 12/17/2001]

 

Yeah!!!!! After re-reading the rules, I'd like to think my flurry of emails to Howard regarding this subject made a difference. The original proposal included 2 seaters and had no restrictions on car (M3's, etc.) I gave my thoughts on what the class should be and why and I got everything I asked for

 

Jeff, So does this mean you'll be leaving the Stock class??

 

So I assume that CRXs and Miatas will be allowed to play around in that class as well? If so, then the R doesn't have much of a chance against those two with an LSD. What about Rotarys?

And I see something weird about the wheel width restrictions because don't some Mustangs and Camaros come with 8" wheels stock?

These rules still have some polishing needed...

"STX
1. All allowances in STS would carry over, including street tires, rim
restrictions, etc.
2. All restrictions regarding body type carry over.
3. Engine size allowance: up to 5.1, normally aspirated and 2.0, forced
induction (single turbo or supercharger).
4. Only factory limited slip differentials (LSD) are allowed on AWD
vehicles, as defined in Section 12.4. For 2WD vehicles and AWD vehicles
that did not come with any type of limited slip differential (including
center differential or transfer case) a single aftermarket LSD may be added.
5. High flow catalytic convertors are allowed but must attach within six
inches of the original unit.
6. Alternate motor mounts and/or engine locators (bobble struts) sold by the
vehicle's manufacturer or their Motorsports subsidiary or their affiliate
(Chrylser/Mopa, Toyots/TRD, Honda/Mugen, etc.) are allowed.
7. Alternate driver and front passenger seats are allowed, but they cannot
be constructed of a solid outer shell and must have a suspended bottom
cushion and be fully upholstered.
8. Brake rotors and calipers are unrestricted, but must attach to the
original attachment points.
9. Additionally excluded cars: BMW M3 (E36 and E46), BMW M5 (all)."

 

Re-read rule #2. "2. All restrictions regarding body type carry over. " That means no two-seaters!

And with regard to wheel width, the theory here was this would be the equalizer. Regardless of what the car came with from the factory, the 7.5 in width would create a level playing field for all competitors. So, yes, some Camaros & Mustangs would need to get narrower wheels in order to compete in this class

 

Not yet..... But I do need some replacement motor mounts, a clutch and new street tires, not to mention shocks. Could be a new home for me

 

Hmmm... this is good for R's, but maybe bad for the class. A broad range of cars needs to be included. We'll see how turnout is next year for the class, but I'm really wondering if Mustangs and Camaros will be attrcted to it since it leaves most all of the Z28's and newer Mustangs out due to the engine size and wheel width rule. Plus, no Miatas and CRXs, which could account for large numbers.

Basically though, I could put an LSD in my 91 Si and run in STX, correct? So STX somewhat fits in between STS and SP? I dunno...I'm confused about why they created the class this way. Again, it's great for the ITR, but ITR numbers can't sustain the class on a national level.

 

I think the ITR might be a dominant player, but there's lots of competition around IMO. Look at the DS cars that will be eligible: ITR, IS300, 3 series BMW's w/LSD's, DSM's, WRX, Focus SVT, Sentra SE-R Spec V, S4, etc.

Then we go to some of the non-DS cars. 5L and 4.6L Mustangs (inc. Bullitt & Cobra), TT 225hp, + others.

And yes, the wheel width rule may affect the Mustangs, they'll lose 1/2 inch of wheel width (at least on 2001 Bullitt's), but they're much faster than us as a class now and allow them some suspension tuning and they should still <U>at least</U> be very competitive.

So from my vantage point there should be plenty of players and competition *if* we can just drum up awareness and interest from the non-ITR parties. If we allowed the Miata's and CRX's as you suggested, all it would take is one CSP CRX, CSP Miata, etc. to basically swap onto street tires and we're right back to where we are today. A place where we and similarly prepped (daily driven) sport compact can't ever be competitive and that's completely not in context with the spirit of street touring is about.

And to answer your question on the 91 Civic Si and adding a LSD. Yes it would be legal for STX (if I understand the rules correctly).

I'm also a bit suprised to hear a ITR SM competitor argue the class doesn't make sense, when you're stacked up against super unrealistic competition all the time and don't have an SP home which is even worth thinking about. Many have begged for a home for the ITR in STS and now that it's happened, you're upset about rules which class it fairly and favorably?!?!? I don't understand, especially since there's a huge wave of new cars hitting the market which are absolutely perfect for this class and will provide life and vitality in the future!

 

I haven't read through the SCCA bulletin you posted yet and I'm not all that familiar with the STS class rules. Could you sum up what modifications are legal for this class?

Is there somwwhere I can get the rules for STS?

 

They used to be here, http://www.scca.org/amateur/solo2/classes/st_tour.html, but have taken down (I guess) until they figure out what rule changes they're going to make to STS this year.

Here's what I remeber

Wheel/Tire Limits: 7.5 Width or less, 225mm width or less, only DOT street tires w/treadwear over 140 (no DOT Competition tires, Hoosier, Kumho V700, etc.)
Shocks/Spring: free, as long as they mount to original mounting points.
Swaybars: free
Brakes: diameter must remain same, but can upgrade to slotted or crossdrilled rotors, pads are free. I think you can have stainless steel lines too.
Exhaust: Headers and cat-back exhaust legal, no mods to cats.

Those were the big items....

 

Cool - but the new STX will allow high-flow cats it looks like...

 

My main concern is why they made it fall in between STS and SP. Do we really need another pseudo SP class? How many classes is enough for street tires? This will suck competitors away from SP, which could be good or bad. Is the SCCA changing their direction or is there some other motive for the odd ruleset (testing the water)?

Again, I'm not against it, but it still doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I might take the cams out of my car and have a go at it sinc e everything thing else is perfect, but it might be a better call for me to add an LSD to my 91 Si. I just hate to take 15whp away from my R!

But yes, I do see a future home for newer cars that won't be SP competitive. I don't know how competitive the R will be in the class with the DSMs, Audis and other RWD/AWD higher HP cars though. I kinda think of this class as SM, only on street tires and without motorswaps.

With that though, why even have regular STS? Just combine the two and have a go at it. The current STS class leaders will all be somewhat competitive in STX if they add LSDs (Civics, Neons, GSRs, etc), so why not?

 

Why don't we post a link to this in the Competition forum to see how everyone else feels? I've talked to a few people about it today and I'm getting mixed reactions.

 

Already a thread over there...

 

I think the problem here is that many people are viewing the new STX class as a next step in the evolution of classing, Stock -&gt; STS -&gt; STX -&gt; SP, and really STX and STS should be together (Stock -&gt; STS/STX -&gt; SP), only seperate because the cars did or did not come with a factory LSD. Really they're both fulfilling the same purpose, the only questionable area is the allowing of cars to add LSD's which didn't come with them to add them. I suspect that to be very low because that's typically a very pricey upgrade and most of the time it's done in conjunction with cars who've had significant power enhancements which would make them illegal for STX anyway.

And no, I don't think this is a psuedo SP class. I think the SCCA is going after a completely different market segment. Trust me, I still don't have any desire to build an SP car and I've been doing this for 3 years. The people the SCCA wants and who appropriately fit this class are folks who drive their "factory tuner cars" daily and want to do a handful of mods to them. The people here on H-T.com are perfect examples. Many don't want to run just stock both because they are unable to mod, but also because race tires are expensive. Going to SP is only worse gets ridiculously expensive not just in mods, but in tires. I really see STX as the segway or way to "hook" drivers and allow them to race competitively without spending crazy $$$ on their car or tires to do it. You see it already, the tire companies aren't hugely supportive and they can't make lots of money on competition tires solo drivers as we just don't use enough (given how many different sizes we need). So using street tires makes great sense. Look at the speedvision world challenge. Has that series lost it's tarnish since it went to street tires? I think they are the example to follow.

And with regard to mods. The STS/STX mods list is very restrictive in comparison to SM. No cams, cam gears, headwork, compression changes, different pistons, throttle bodies, fixed width wheels, no addition of forced induction, must use street tire, etc.

 

Damn...we gotta stop posting on two different threads!

Anyhow, STX, to me, is seen as a step above STS because of the allowance for STS cars to run it with added LSDs. Plus, STS guys have long wanted poly engine mounts and different seats, both of which STX provides.

My 91 Si with a quaife, lighter seats and poly engine mounts (which SP *does not* allow) would be a very good car for STX. If we can get a comittment for cendiv and the tours to run it, I'll be there with one of my three Hondas