I picked up my shiny almost-new ITR this week, and I'd like some opinions on how best to set it up for SCCA Solo II D-Stock. I've got a set of '95 Mazda Millenia wheels on the way (actually 2 sets), as that seems to be the wheel of choice.

What about tires? I gather that running 225's in front and 205's in the rear is common. What's the best sidewall height? As I understand it, sidewall height is a percentage of the section width, so if I ran 225/45/15's in front, and 205/50/15's in the rear, the actual sidewall height would be roughly the same. Whereas if I ran 225/50/15's in front, that would effectively raise the nose of the car about 10mm. If I have the sizes right, it looks like I could get Kumho ECSTA V700's or Hoosier A3S04's or R3S04's. Any opinions on brand? What about pressure? Where should I start?

Alignment? I won't be doing a lot of street driving, so I'm not too concerned about tire wear. 1/8" toe out in front seems to be common, though I've hear 3/16" might be good. What about the rear? Some say 0 toe in the rear, but I've also heard 1/8" toe out in the rear. Am I right that the camber is not adjustable on these cars, and you just get whatever you get from the factory?

Adjustable shocks? I may not shell out for this just yet, since the stock setup is pretty good as I understand it. Is it worth it? If so, what should I get?

Anything else? Air filter? How much benefit do you get from a good cat-back exhaust system? I hesitate to monkey with the exhaust, as I don't really want the "10,000 angry bees in a tin can" street racer sound (no offense to those that enjoy that sound).

Any opinions appreciated!

Thanks, Gary

 

Try posting your questions in the AutoX/RR forum.

Congrats on the purchase!

 

Good thought, I'll do that. Thanks!

 

Since I have never autoXed before and don't plan it for a while... maybe you might get better responses from the Road Racing/Autocross forum??

 

To start this off, most of it all depends on your skill level now. IE how many autocrosses have you done yet, and just how proficient are you with your cars handling.

Congratulations and yes the Milennia wheels are a decent choice for race rubber.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What about tires? I gather that running 225's in front and 205's in the rear is common.</TD></TR></TABLE>

This depends and is preference and not neccessarily what you might want to do if you are just starting out and figuring how your car handles or how you want it to handle. The staggered setup will promote Oversteer to an extent but runs into issues with tire rotation as per wear front to rear.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What's the best sidewall height?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Many people use either a 205/50 all around or a 225/45 all around and some may stagger. The concern is not raising and lowering the front or rear by 10mm but the larger tires diameter and how it effects the final drive and gearing with the car as per acceleration, our cars are torqueless wonders, larger diameters don't help this matter.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If I have the sizes right, it looks like I could get Kumho ECSTA V700's or Hoosier A3S04's or R3S04's. Any opinions on brand?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Totally depending on your skill and experience, I'd personally suggest first running on Falken Azenis in a 205/50/15 all around for a few races. Then when you've gotten more proficient, maybe take a look at some R compounds. The sizes again are what you must decide but I can tell you that The Kunmho's and Hoosiers will fit both front and rear on a stock suspended R with just a bit of rubbing in 225/45/15 with proper offset. Hoosiers (you want the A's for Autocross) tend to run a bit wider, are lighter (at least the A3S03's were) provide significantly more grip on many different surfaces, and also tend wear faster. There is always a debate between the Kumho Ecsta V700's and the older V700's about predictability, again this will be preference and at the point you purchase you may even want to look at the V710's.

Another good idea would be to look for used or slightly used tires where you can most times find a good deal. I've had great experience this way and have run 3 sets of R comp's to date without ever buying a new set yet.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What about pressure?</TD></TR></TABLE>

This will be preference through trial and error mostly and the best advice I can give is go to a bunch of autocrosses and meet as many people as possible to develop some relationships with people with similar setup's. You'd be surprised how friendly Autocrossers are in general and how much information they will share and or help you with.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Where should I start?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Take yourself and your car to a few local autocrosses either wth SCCA or NASA:

http://www.scca.org/

http://www.nasaproracing.com/

With Nothing done to your car other than it in good mechanical shape and safety wise and a good open minded attitude ready to help out and have a great time. Be ready for fun.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Alignment? I won't be doing a lot of street driving, so I'm not too concerned about tire wear. 1/8" toe out in front seems to be common, though I've hear 3/16" might be good. What about the rear? Some say 0 toe in the rear, but I've also heard 1/8" toe out in the rear. Am I right that the camber is not adjustable on these cars, and you just get whatever you get from the factory?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Correct, there are no stock camber adjustments.

Many of us run a 1/8th total toe out front and 0 toe rear for track and or autocross applications. Others may change the settings to suit their needs. But a good idea would be to keep as close to a stock setting as possible till you get a good feel for the car and decide you want to change it.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Adjustable shocks? I may not shell out for this just yet, since the stock setup is pretty good as I understand it. Is it worth it? If so, what should I get?</TD></TR></TABLE>

While the stock R's suspension is awesome right out of the box, your car obviously isn't right out of the box since you didn't get it brand new, and depending on usage, mileage and care the shocks may require replacement for optimal handling. Koni Yellow Adjustables as well as Bilstein Sports, both type-R specific have a good following.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Anything else?</TD></TR></TABLE>

That all depends on how far you want to go and or if you care to change classes.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Air filter?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Honestly, not much, maybe just upgrade to a K&N for slightly better throttle response.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How much benefit do you get from a good cat-back exhaust system?</TD></TR></TABLE>

3-5 whp depending on setup and or if a HF cat is included.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I hesitate to monkey with the exhaust, as I don't really want the "10,000 angry bees in a tin can" street racer sound (no offense to those that enjoy that sound).</TD></TR></TABLE>

Then definitely stick with stock till you decide what you may want and how much you care to spend, because there are quite a few QUIET high flow exhausts available now days.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Any opinions appreciated!

Thanks, Gary
</TD></TR></TABLE>

No problem, if you need any more help feel free to ask, there are more than a few regular autocrossers and track ****** here that will help and point you in the right direction.


Good luck, Anton

PS you might also want to try the Road Racing/ Autocross forum for more in depth discussions as per the art of racing and whatnot.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1GreyTeg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">3-5 whp depending on setup and or if a HF cat is included.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You can't modify the cat in D Stock, can you?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Utilitarian &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

You can't modify the cat in D Stock, can you?</TD></TR></TABLE>

No, you can't. Sorry if my digression was misleading.

 

im getting ready to complete my first full season of autox, and i must say that the falkens are a great tire to start on. my suggestion is to learn the car before you change it. learn on street tires and stock everything else, then after a while upgrade, no reason to rush into things, im probably going to get 225/45and 205/50 hoosiers for nexxt season but im not sure yet.

 

Don't learn on stock tires. Don't learn on stock suspension. What is the point of this?

I had the pure pleasure of riding along with the man that took third in Nationals last year at a recent SCCA event here in Washington. A very good friend of his was the guy that took first. They both switched off and on in a black Type R (auto-x.net. The main car on the website is the black type R). After meeting with these guys yesterday night for some driving and some chit chat I found that if you want to compete you need two things essentially for your car.
1) Really good tires (hoosiers)
2) Really good suspension (many options)

The best thing you can do is go to a couple races, pick out the fastest M-f'er there and go brown nose him until he gives you a ride during one of his races. See what everyone is using and chances are, all the major players are rolling hoosiers and koni shocks.

Simply learning how to drive the car in the trim it is now is the stupidest thing I've heard. Why learn the characteristics of stock tires and suspension, then change it all up, and go race with out any real seat time with the new stuff?

Make the sacrifice, get the suspension you need to be competative in your class, buy some used hoosiers if your broke and go race. learn on that.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Haleiwa-Brando &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Don't learn on stock tires. Don't learn on stock suspension. What is the point of this?</TD></TR></TABLE>

actually, there is a good point. once you start modifying a car, the average autox noob does not know if the mistakes are in their driving or in the car setup. most attribute driver error to wrong shock setting, alignment etc. when you learn on a stock vehicle, you get more out of it.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Haleiwa-Brando &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I found that if you want to compete you need two things essentially for your car.
1) Really good tires (hoosiers)
2) Really good suspension (many options)</TD></TR></TABLE>

well, hoosiers are tougher to drive on (less forgiving) then a set of all season tires. a good suspension will also be tougher to drive on at the limit. especially if it has adjustments. people, especially noob, like to tinker with things, and many many times upset the handling of the car thinking they are making it better when in fact they are making it worse.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Haleiwa-Brando &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The best thing you can do is go to a couple races, pick out the fastest M-f'er there and go brown nose him until he gives you a ride during one of his races. </TD></TR></TABLE>

i wholheartedly agree with this. better yet, have that person ride with you.

 

First off here's a quick reference to the SCCA rules for Solo 2 mods and classifications:

http://moutons.org/sccasolo/

What makes you say this? Experience or opinion?

If by chance the original poster may have limited seat time either at autocross or on the track, the best way to start to learn is as close to stock as possible.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">After meeting with these guys yesterday night for some driving and some chit chat I found that if you want to compete you need two things essentially for your car.
1) Really good tires (hoosiers)
2) Really good suspension (many options)</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yup.

But, R compound tires mask mistakes of a novice or even an intermediate driver.

And starting with an upgraded suspension, in this case shocks while may be important depending on his current suspensions condition may also throw more variables into the loop than are optimal for starting out.

For this car it's better (and cheaper) to at least start out getting seat time as close to stock as possible while developing driver skills and abilities.

Driver skill and ability are way more important than R comp tires and upgraded shocks. We're not talking a car that needs much more to do extremely well in capable hands.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The best thing you can do is go to a couple races, pick out the fastest M-f'er there and go brown nose him until he gives you a ride during one of his races. See what everyone is using and chances are, all the major players are rolling hoosiers and koni shocks.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Kinda the same idea, but I don't think immediately emulating their setups is the key. Especially with Hoosiers.

I gotta ask have you driven on Hoosiers? or other R compounds?


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Simply learning how to drive the car in the trim it is now is the stupidest thing I've heard. Why learn the characteristics of stock tires and suspension, then change it all up, and go race with out any real seat time with the new stuff?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sorry, it's absolutely Not th stupidest thing I've heard from Many experienced Autocrossers, from local to regional champs to national level drivers in even more competitive classes. Because just as I mentioned above for a novice Autocrosser or even an intermediate in a new car it's just the natural progression of things. I never mentioned "How Many" autocrosses to run like this. It's just a VG idea to do 1 or 2 stock/street to see what your skill level is (based on his questioning it looks like he's novice), if the car needs anything at all, or if you can out drive the car.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Make the sacrifice, get the suspension you need to be competative in your class, buy some used hoosiers if your broke and go race. learn on that. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Why spend money if in his local area he can already be competitive.

Competetive in stock class is cross between the driver and the car itself.

If all that those gentlemen mentioned for the R to be "NATIONALLY" competitive were R comp's and Good shocks, Why not save a few bucks now, get the seat time, develop a better driver that will learn from his mistakes quicker than cover them up and add confusion to the mix for the first few races?

Some guys are good enough to go immediately to R comp's and able to appreciate them, And or skilled enough already to be able to fine tune a suspension from the get go. Other guys I've seen struggle dealing with to many different factors in all classes where they might likely have been able to do better learning with less and building the blocks up.

It's preference, you can do whatever you want. But I'd bet more experienced national level guys would suggest at least the first or first few autocrosses at as close to stock in a Type-R, then maybe getting some used R comp's (Not sure if they'd suggest Hoosier's though) and going from there.


Best of luck

 

I might suck* at autocrossing but even I know sound advice when I hear/read it.

* Quite humbling when rodney punks your time by over a second in your own car ...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rodney &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> once you start modifying a car, the average autox noob does not know if the mistakes are in their driving or in the car setup. most attribute driver error to wrong shock setting, alignment etc. when you learn on a stock vehicle, you get more out of it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is why I have stayed stock to date, as hard as it is to ride a dump truck I will not modify until i can out drive or am confident enough in my driving ability to do so.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rodney &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i wholheartedly agree with this. better yet, have that person ride with you.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree too, now when are you coming auto-x'ing again already?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by opie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> when are you coming auto-x'ing again already? </TD></TR></TABLE>

bah.... new house and trailer issues own me. in the upcoming weeks i plan on running sandra's car (stock suspension, stock tires mind you....) this weekend i have to unbox everything, as there are dishes in the basement, and tools in the kitchen. looks like a bomb exploded in the house....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by thk &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
* Quite humbling when rodney punks your time by over a second in your own car ... </TD></TR></TABLE>

No ****.

I've been chasing his times for 3 years now.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rodney &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
this weekend i have to unbox everything, as there are dishes in the basement, and tools in the kitchen. looks like a bomb exploded in the house....</TD></TR></TABLE>

Cool, so we'll all stop bye on Sunday and cause trouble, I mean help you.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by opie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

This is why I have stayed stock to date, as hard as it is to ride a dump truck I will not modify until i can out drive or am confident enough in my driving ability to do so.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

You are no longer stock now, you JDM bling *****! you up against me and Edgar this Sunday in STX.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by opie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This is why I have stayed stock to date, as hard as it is to ride a dump truck I will not modify until i can out drive or am confident enough in my driving ability to do so.</TD></TR></TABLE>

So you are broke, hon?

 

Thanks for all the replies. I appreciate the info. I'm not quite a novice. I ran one full season here in my STi, which is now for sale to pay for the ITR. I have also heard from many experienced drivers that running on stock tires can be a good thing. I was too impatient, though, and switched to Kumho Victoracers after a couple events. With that setup, I usually placed in the top 10 in the indexed novice category (out of maybe 80). So anyhow, I do want to set the ITR up so that it can win. That way, if I lose, I have only my driving to blame.

Thanks again,
Gary

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nEoMuGen &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

You are no longer stock now, you JDM bling *****! you up against me and Edgar this Sunday in STX. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jon V &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

So you are broke, hon?</TD></TR></TABLE>

And Yes

 

Every car drives different, the Sti is a totally different car from an ITR, I know this from just riding in one a t a local event, my suggestion is maybe run half the season on street tires and then switch to r compound with enough time to scrub them in for nationals.
but in autocrossing its all in the driver, theres a guy here who rapes my times and guys times in AS and even SS in his HS MX3. hes just a badass driver, so i suggest learn the car and then make adjustments. no reason to spend alot of money, right away.