Just flushed the brake system (Motul 600 RBF), ripped out the front brake rotor shields, and bedded in my Cobalt Spec VR front pads. Neat-o, they make sparks when they get warm!!! That's a first for me.

Anyhow, anyone even THINKING about running Cobalt Spec VR pads on the street, DON'T DO IT! They suck serious *** when cold. Even when they were hot, they only felt about like stock cold pads (which were pretty good IMO). The Carbotech XP9's on the other hand were fine on the street, I really liked them and would probably run them again, someday, depending on how the Cobalt pads stand up.

Hopefully these things last more than a single HPDE... those poor Carbotech XP9's have less than 1/2 of the pad left on the inside ones, and the material that IS left doesn't look very happy to be there (cheese grater effect).

Oh well, looking at Mid-Ohio it doesn't LOOK hard on brakes... but Road America wasn't supposed to be that hard either.

-Chris

 

its not too hard on the brakes except for one or two spots. I hope I get to see sparks flying out of your wheels on track That'd be awesome.

 

You going to both weekends Erik?

< Has a set of VRs sitting in his garage but no vacation time left to go to the track Come on 2005!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Erik95LS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">its not too hard on the brakes except for one or two spots. I hope I get to see sparks flying out of your wheels on track That'd be awesome. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, totally. Glad to hear Mid-Ohio is not too hard on brakes. It looks like the long windy parts will give the brakes plenty of time to cool.

-Chris

 

Wierd. I had the exact opposite opinion/experience with the VR's vs. XP9's.

I thought the VR's felt great even cold on the ITR. The car has really great brake feel.

...but the XP9's are on my Supra, so...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ccfries &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yeah, totally. Glad to hear Mid-Ohio is not too hard on brakes. It looks like the long windy parts will give the brakes plenty of time to cool.

-Chris
</TD></TR></TABLE>

It really just depends on how you drive. The main places where you are really hard on them is braking off of the back straight (120+ to 50-60) and coming into the carousel. I cant' wait

Chris, the PCA school was full, so I'm just doing this one instead. Wanna come up and crew for us?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Erik95LS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

It really just depends on how you drive. The main places where you are really hard on them is braking off of the back straight (120+ to 50-60) and coming into the carousel. I cant' wait
</TD></TR></TABLE>

120+ in an N/A ITR? Ooh, that's gonna be fast....

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Erik95LS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Chris, the PCA school was full, so I'm just doing this one instead. Wanna come up and crew for us? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, bring stopwatches, cameras and brakes!

 

You know it sucks coming to the track and not running but MidOhio isn't too far and I wouldn't mind taking some pixors of you foos.

Maybe

 

I know what you mean seeing sparks fly from bedding in VR's was hella cool for me too!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ccfries &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

120+ in an N/A ITR? Ooh, that's gonna be fast....
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah its a reeeeeally long straight. I was able to get 110-120 or so pretty consistantly with b18b power so I imagine it'll be quite a bit faster now.

aqain, I cant' wait

Chris you should definatly come man.

 

My VRs actually work well around town. They have fine cold bite, just not good cold pedal feel. They stop my car just fine.

&lt;- has had the VR's on the R for a month now.

 

I run the VR's for track use, and the GT-sports for around town.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris N &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My VRs actually work well around town. They have fine cold bite, just not good cold pedal feel. They stop my car just fine.

&lt;- has had the VR's on the R for a month now.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, I'm starting to agree. After breaking them in and letting them cool (overnight) they're a lot better. But right, they do bite a bit. They just felt really weak before I broke them in, and that surprised me.

-Chris

[Edit, there are too many Chris's in this thread... but Chris N.- You should come out to Mid-Ohio if you haven't sold your caR yet!)

 

Sparks from the pads? WOW, must be metal on metal contact.

Does the Motul 600 RBF fluid need flushing more regularly?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DutchITR1689 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sparks from the pads? WOW, must be metal on metal contact.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Wrong. Buy the european Textar pads, and you will see this :


I like braking more than acceleration



These pics are with my previous Prelude VTEC.

 

The sparks is from whatever compound was left on the rotor before.... I dont like mixing pad compounds on the same rotor

 

i dont think u'll have to worry about changing your pads after 1 event. your rotors on the other hand might get eaten alive.

i've got cobalt spec B's which are a level below the VR's and they look good as new after 3 months but my stock rotors are getting carved into pretty deep (ruffly the with of a dime on each side ).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The sparks is from whatever compound was left on the rotor before.... I dont like mixing pad compounds on the same rotor </TD></TR></TABLE>

These are brand-spanking-new rotors and pads. Duralast/Autozone. I could see sparks fly past my driver/pass side window when lifting off of the brakes after a hard brake (at night, bedding in.)

I don't "like" mixing pad compounds on a rotor, but have done it anyway in the past, with limited problems. I just warped another autozone rotor that went from Raybestos to something else (OEM?) to something else, straight to a hot session on a track with the XP9's. They were my emergency rotors that I ended up using since the stupid drilled rotors cracked.

I THINK I warped the rotor when hitting a curb hard at the inside of a fast apex, on the 2nd session with that combination. The next time I hit the brakes, they shudderd HARD and got slightly better.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DutchITR1689 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Does the Motul 600 RBF fluid need flushing more regularly?</TD></TR></TABLE>

It depends on what you need I guess. They have a higher wet and dry boiling point than normal DOT4 fluid. But it's also more hygroscopic, so it will absorb water much faster. If you bleed after every HPDE (or whenever you get any boiling) and flush it once a year, it's probably good. I have no way to guess how fast it really absorbs moisture, without boiling it and watching with a thermometer.

-Chris

 

I went over 2,000 track miles before I flushed out my Motul 600 brake fluid... it performed fine, but looking pretty dark.

"more" hygroscopic or not, I wouldnt worry about it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I went over 2,000 track miles before I flushed out my Motul 600 brake fluid... it performed fine, but looking pretty dark.

"more" hygroscopic or not, I wouldnt worry about it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, mine looks like, umm, ginger ale that was used as an ashtray. At least the first bit that comes out from the caliper.

Caution, <U>opinion </U>and <U>NOT FACTS </U>follow:

What period of time were those 2000 miles over? One season? about 10 track days I guess? If you spread those miles over 3 years, I'd say that you shoulda flushed it more often, because the fluid will pick up water over that time. One season is probably fine.

But yeah, my comment was regarding TIME between flushing rather than miles/usage... you could read "should I flush it more often" as both.

-Chris

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ccfries &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What period of time were those 2000 miles over? One season? about 10 track days I guess? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, first half of this year. In the past I've used ATE and have to bleed it every weekend or every other weekend.

 

How about a good DOT 5.1 brake fluid? Isn't that good enough for the track?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DutchITR1689 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How about a good DOT 5.1 brake fluid? Isn't that good enough for the track?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Isnt 5.1 the silicon based stuff? If it is, dont use it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Isnt 5.1 the silicon based stuff? If it is, dont use it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
No, that's DOT 5.

DOT 5.1 has the specs of DOT 5 but is compatible with DOT 3 and 4.


Dot 5.1 brake fluid

LONG LIFE 100% synthetic fluid for hydraulic actuated-brake and clutch systems.
DOT 5.1 NON-SILICONE BASE.
Fluidity specially designed for anti-locking brake systems.

LONG LIFE FORMULA : the high wet boiling point (185°c/365°F), superior to DOT 4 and DOT 3 fluids enables to use this product longer.
SPECIALLY DESIGNED TO ANTI-LOCKING BRAKE SYSTEM (ABS) : its viscosity (820 centipoises at -40°c / -40°F) lower than DOT 4 and DOT 3 brake fluids, allows MOTUL BRAKE FLUID DOT 5.1 an easier fluid circulation in micro-valves of anti-locking systems.
PERFECTLY NEUTRAL WITH SEALS USED IN BRAKING SYSTEMS. ANTI-CORROSION.

STANDARDS : FMVSS 116 DOT 5.1 NON SILICONE BASE & DOT 4 & DOT 3
SAE J 1703

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DutchITR1689 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
No, that's DOT 5.

DOT 5.1 has the specs of DOT 5 but is compatible with DOT 3 and 4.


Dot 5.1 brake fluid

LONG LIFE 100% synthetic fluid for hydraulic actuated-brake and clutch systems.
DOT 5.1 NON-SILICONE BASE.
Fluidity specially designed for anti-locking brake systems.

LONG LIFE FORMULA : the high wet boiling point (185°c/365°F), superior to DOT 4 and DOT 3 fluids enables to use this product longer.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I've considered it too... but the RBF has better wet boiling point anyway. I don't like their description, they equate wet boiling point with "efficient in the rain"!!!!!


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Motul Website &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
RBF-600:
EXTREME THERMAL RESISTANCE AND STABILITY: the elevated boiling point of RBF 600 FACTORY LINE (312°c / 593°F) enables effective braking even under the extreme conditions of competition.

VERY EFFICIENT WHEN RAINY: the very high wet boiling point (216°c / 420°F), is superior to conventional brake fluids provides a particularly efficient braking system in rain and put back the apparition of vapor lock.
</TD></TR></TABLE>