I remember reading in Road & Track maybe a year or two ago when they had an article featuring a buildup of an ITA CRX. Does anyone know what issue it was?

Thanks
-Seth

 

I believe it was Car and Driver and the car wasn't really fast from what I saw. I watched it get unmercifully beaten at the ARRC that year.

If you want to know how to set up a CRX for ITA, find the one of several features in Grassroots Motorsports or call OPM Motorsports and just ask questions. They'll answer them.

 

It was definitely Car and Driver, sometime in 2000. Larry Webster was the guy who wrote the article and built the car, IIRC. I remember laughing my *** off at the idea of a $20K+ CRX. Somehow I no longer think it's all that funny.

 

I have the issue at home somewhere. It doesn't really get into specifics. He basically farmed out most of the work. No suprises as far as what equipment or suppliers. If no on else gets you the info, I can tell you tomorrow when I get home.

 

Find the Car & Driver website and do a search. Not long ago the article was still in their online archives.

I tried to tell Larry several times that his "free" BFG's were worth exactly what he paid for them. He was never comfortable driving the car because it gave him no warning before losing grip... typical of BFG's. They had good grip but as soon as you pushed them too far they were gone... no warning, nothing.

$20K for an ITA CRX, nuts? Nope... not nuts at all for a competitive one. Especially if you pay anyone (Zen, King, OPM, etc.) to do any of the labor/setup/maint.

 

Not crazy at all. The MARRS championship car recently sold for ~15k (I think) and it's several years old. Fast as hell, but not new. Not sure who did the engine, but Mitch Piper did the cage.

 

i remember seeing that article at my schools library... they have every issue from 1985 to present in C&D, motortrend, ROad and track... go check out a local college and see if you can find it... howver that guy spent too much money on that thing .... he spent 20K and it wasnt that impressive....

 

Not crazy at all. The MARRS championship car recently sold for ~15k (I think) and it's several years old. Fast as hell, but not new.

 

Yea, it was Car and Driver wasn't it. Okay, thanks guys!

-Seth

 

Elaborate. What wasn't impressive? What was too much money? Have you ever seen a well prepared ITA CRX up close? Just because it doesn't have a B-(insert random numeric value here), a turbo and a coffee can sticking out the back doesn't mean there isn't a hell of a lot of preparation and go-fast stuff in it.

Larry's car was a well built, nice looking car. It wasn't one of the fastest on the track but it could be with better tires and some suspension tuning. It's an example of the kind of value a company like Zen Autoworks or OPM adds. You can put all the right parts on the car. That doesn't guarantee it will be fast though... you have to know how to make all those parts work together.

 

okay 20K to build that car eekkkss i saw the after performance numbers that followed the building of it... wasnt too impressed..

lets think... i bought my CRX for 700, with a d16 ( which i havent gotten yet) okay so i send out my d16 and get it built for 1200 dollars ( built enough to run atLEAST 13.40s full interior) i send out 4000 for suspension so my bill is at 5900.. i get custom tranny 4100 my bill is 10000... i get some rims with tires 1500 thats 11500 roll cage 1000 thats 12500 extras 2500 .. thats 15000 and i was being outrageous on some prices
and thats no TURBO no B(add numerical value here) motor and thats no VTEC!

 

Obviously, you haven't built an IT car lately. I doubt a reputable engine builder would do the work for $1200. A rollcage is more like $1500 if you use a welder who knows SCCA prep rules. You left out $400 for a bucket seat, $200 harness, $300 fire extinguisher. You did not include any spare wheels/tires.

What performance numbers did you look at? 1320? Who gives a ****. And any lap times are irrelevant because the driver was a novice.

We're talking about building a car within a very limiting rule set and maximinzing what the factory gave us. This costs lots of money - the prices quoted in the magazine were for well known shops to perform work. Sure, you can build a hand grenade engine in your living room, but it'll last half a season and won't make near the powe that a pro-built engine will.

 

[QUOTE]You left out $400 for a bucket seat, $200 harness, $300 fire extinguisher. You did not include any spare wheels/tires.
QUOTE]

hey re read my post and read the portion that said EXTRA!!! hahaha

and yes 1200 dollars to build a d16 ... and he is one of the best engine builders in america

 

I have pretty detailed spreadsheets of every expense that has gone into building my car. You got all of the major costs, though I think they look a bit low, but it's the "extras" that kill you. $2500 for those is probably way low. Start adding things up like:

exhaust, seat, harness, window net & mount, gauges, steering wheel, extinguisher, kill switch, bushings, wheel bearings, new hubs, wheel studs, CV boots, intake, plug wires, battery, motor mounts, O2 sensor, brake lines, rotors, hood pins, (I could go on)

There are a lot of minor things that add up. Also, when you're building an 11 year old car, there are a lot of stock replacement things that have to be done on the car... you can do them up front or wait for them to break in a race.

I haven't even gotten to the all important "consumables".

 

wow atleast your not being ****...

but how much was your suspension and tranny? i put a total of 8100 dollars thats more then half of the total i put just on tranny and suspension... that all seems outrageous...

but then that guy who built the 20K car probably doesnt know people who can do that stuff for cheap... thats where people get you on cost.. LABOR!!

 

The Car & Driver issue was the Jan. 2000.
I don't think that 20k is too much for a well prepared car. Can you start racing for a lot less? Of course you can. I've built two cars now. You pick the compromises you want to make. Bolt in cage or custom? Off the shelf shocks with sleeves or custom valved coilovers? Hoosiers or Toyo's? Lexan or glass? It just goes on & on. On my latest car, I made some just to get back out on the track before the season was over. I am in the process of correcting those now. My focus is getting a car that is safe & fun. When the driver improves enough (read is not the handicap anymore), then I will worry about how much the car is the handicap. Note to self: you are paying more doing it that way.

 

I wasn't trying to be ****, just point out that there are a lot of hidden costs when building a car from scratch. That's why it's so much cheaper to buy a "built" car.

Can you build an ITA CRX for under $20K? Hell yeah, you can. For a lot less, but I wouldn't expect it to be as fast or reliable as a $20K car.

As for your estimates... the price you put on suspension and gearbox sound about right. $1200 for a motor sounds low though. I think my bill from the machine shop was close to that. Once again, if you know of someone that can do it for less, that's great.

 

All of the cars that finished in the top 3 at the ARRC this year (the IT national championship) cost over 20K to build. Two CRXs and an Integra. That should answer any questions, plain and simple.

 

20K to build an ITA car is very easy to do. pick up sportscar and look in the classifieds for a well prepped, race ready car. You will spend at least 10k. Heck BSI will build you a VW golf to run in ITB or ITA for just over 22K. Speedsource RX7's in ITS run over 30K to build. However, all of these cars are well sorted and have the best parts possible in them

 

If you want a fast CRX, you can do one for just a little over $10K. It will be quite fast, I've done 1:25s at roebling, 2:22s at vir, 1:47s at Road Atlanta in one of these "fast" CRXs and those were the top ITA times at those races. But I've also driven a fully "tricked" out CRX with shocks alone worth $1800. 1:23s at Roebling, 2:21s at VIR, 1:45s at Road Atlanta with this beast. The difference is there, but those last 1-2 seconds come at a very steep price of close to $10 000.

Here's the classified add for this TOP CRX I refered to earlier. Notice the little extras:

ITA CRX SI 1988 Posted: Dec, 13 2001 [NL]ITA 1988 CRX SI 1 year old
car.[NL]Build by OPM Motorsport,New Engine by Sunbelt/OPM 20 over pistons
[NL]Welded custom made Nascar style cage by Robinson Racing, Blueprinted
Fuel injectors, Quaife Limited Slip, Houseman Final Drive Rebuild
Transmission ( 3 month ago) New Clutch 1 race old, Hardened Hubs, Koni
double adjustable custom build shocks NEW rebuild.[NL]Eibach 500 front and
700 Rear springs, MOMO Top Nascar Seat[NL]MOMO Mod 78 Suede Steering wheel
with quick disconnect.[NL]Autometer Gauges, Sequential shift light indicator, 2
Panasport wheels 14x7 [NL]4 American Racing 14x6 wheels, 4 Intermediate rain
tires on factory wheels, extra bottom engine spare for rebuild, Special surge
tank for endurance races, New Paint, Oil cooler+lots of extra. Nothing
spared[NL]Car won both the PRO IT & ECR championship 2001 also
finished 2nd at the ARRC.[NL]Car has cost close to $21000 to build and we
will sell for $11500 Will consider trade for a new SPEC MIATA.[NL]Call Louis
at 678-546 7266 or sales@ltbmotorsport.com


btw, a fully done IT CRX engine is easily $2500 for reputable shops such as OPM, KING, ZEN. Don't waste money in doing a $1200 engine because you'll have CRXs flying past you on the straights as if you were a mid pack ITB car. There is quite a bit that goes in making a top IT legal CRX motor that makes about 15 more HP at the wheels than what he car made stock at the flywheel.


[Modified by Hracer, 2:16 AM 12/17/2001]