Alright, I bought PBR metal master pads and cross-drilled & slotted rotors front and back as well as ss lines and Ate Super Blur Dot 4 fluid. Had the set-up put on yesterday and there is an incredible amount of brake fade. My car does not stop as quick as it did with the stock set-up. I realize I have to brake in the pads but it seems that it wasn't bled properly. The pedal seems squishy. Just wondering if I went overkill getting everything or do they just need time to break in. Can anyone shed some light on my concern. Opinions welcome. Thanx in advance.

 

did you bleed it? how did you bleed them?

 

if the pedal point is not hard just swifting or so you didn t bleed the brake fluid circle right.

pedal must have an particular point where its hard.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dk127 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">did you bleed it? how did you bleed them? </TD></TR></TABLE>

The shop I deal with did the install. I suppose I'll just take it back to them.

 

The initial bite when they are cold wont be as good as stock pads, but when you warm them up LOOK OUT. I noticed the same thing with my Carbotechs, but once they are warms they bite hard.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CW-ITR-329 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The initial bite when they are cold wont be as good as stock pads, but when you warm them up LOOK OUT. I noticed the same thing with my Carbotechs, but once they are warms they bite hard.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's kinda what I figured. Just wondering if that characteristic of the pads would make the pedal feel squishy.

 

PBR? Metal Masters. Pad Material is everything when it comes to initial bite, stopping power and overall feel. Only about 3 brands and compounds I would run on the stree. Top choice is always Cobalt GT Sports for the street.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CW-ITR-329 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The initial bite when they are cold wont be as good as stock pads, but when you warm them up LOOK OUT. I noticed the same thing with my Carbotechs, but once they are warms they bite hard.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Most likely different compounds and not neccessarily an even comparison.

There is a difference between feel at engagement for aggressive pads that need to heat up, "Firm" but you aren't stopping as quickly, and air in the lines "Soft/Squishy".

If you apply the brakes and they feel soft or squishy, there may be air in the lines and the system needs to be rebled in proper order DF,PF,PR,DR.

Soft or squishy or sinking pedal is Not a sign of a different pad compound.

If a shop did the setup for him he should take it back and have them remedy the situation.

 

Car is going back to the shop tomorrow. Thanks for all the info guys.

 

Whenever I do a fresh flush with ATE I have to flush it a number of times to get the proper pedal stiffness. Even then, it seems to take a day or two to really "stiffen up." I still don't know why that's the case, but it's been like that for 4 or 5 flushes so far, and in different cars.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Asahi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">PBR? Metal Masters. Pad Material is everything when it comes to initial bite, stopping power and overall feel. Only about 3 brands and compounds I would run on the stree. Top choice is always Cobalt GT Sports for the street.</TD></TR></TABLE>

gt sports = squeal

but they make stock pads look like

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by w@@t w@@t &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

gt sports = squeal

but they make stock pads look like </TD></TR></TABLE>

My GT Sports hardly ever squeal. They do however dust a lot. But if you want performance there are going to be trade offs and the first one to go is low dust. Next will be some squeal.

 

This isn't related to the problem you're having, but since you're going back to the shop, consider think about returning the slotted and cross-drilled rotors for brembo blanks or autozone rotors. Use the money you save and get better pads. It sounds like you're serious about getting the best performance out of your brakes. Slotted and cross-drilled rotors are not part of that plan, especially if you ever plan to track your car. If you want bling, then by all means keep 'em.

 

Funny that you would install Metal masters for better braking. These pads are my winter set up , so not to have that extra bite and ABS engagement.

The pedal feel has a lot to do with bleeding and/or bedding period. I suspect you have not completed enough mileage for proper bedding.

As for initial bite, Trey's recommendation is good. Personally, I use the Hawk HP+ because they are also up to the task on the track.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by white rocket &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Alright, I bought PBR metal master pads....</TD></TR></TABLE>
I've never heard of these. What kind of activity are they designed for? As others have pointed out, there are a lot of high performance pads that do not have good initial bite and there isn't much anybody can do about it because they're just designed for different activities.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...and cross-drilled & slotted rotors front and back...</TD></TR></TABLE>
Since nobody has mentioned this yet, I'll be a pain and mention that cross drilled/slotted rotors reduce the braking area, and reduce braking efficiency under just about every situation you're likely to encounter on the street or even on the track. The only exception I can think of is having to drive at over 100 miles per hour in the rain. Doesn't make any sense, otherwise, with modern brake pads.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">... as well as ss lines....</TD></TR></TABLE>
What SS lines? A big name that we know works well on the ITR? Something we learned from our old Porsche days is that if the manufacturer of the SS lines isn't careful to research what he's doing, the SS lines might have a slightly bigger bore than the OEM lines. This will cause you to have a soft, miserable pedal feel.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My car does not stop as quick as it did with the stock set-up. </TD></TR></TABLE>
It might not stop as fast as your OEM setup because you have those damned holes in the rotors ( ) and because you haven't bedded the pads. More miles might bed them in, or you can do what the racers and the shiners in the country do.

As others have said, once bedded in, there are a number of good high performance brake pads that will have good initial cold bite. There are offerings from both Cobalt and Carbotech that will work perfectly well in everyday driving and high performance driving.

I have Cobalt GT Sports on the EP3 and Cobalt Spec V-R on the ITR. Never had a problem with either.

Very best of luck resolving your pedal feel and stopping issues. Please make sure to let us know how it's resolved.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
What SS lines? A big name that we know works well on the ITR? Something we learned from our old Porsche days is that if the manufacturer of the SS lines isn't careful to research what he's doing, the SS lines might have a slightly bigger bore than the OEM lines. This will cause you to have a soft, miserable pedal feel.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's not correct [AFAIK] as stated, maybe what you're referring to is the tolerance between the inner lining and the SS mesh itself? Which will produce a mushy brake pedal feel until the slack is taken out. [But there will be a lot less give than with stock lines regardless]

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by El Pollo Diablo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

That's not correct [AFAIK] as stated....</TD></TR></TABLE>

Best of luck convincing the PCA that they are incorrect.

It was Bob Garretson who said this. I don't know what he's doing these days, or even if he's still around. He used to be affiliated with Porsche performance parts companies that were receiving complaints about soft pedal that couldn't be solved.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Best of luck convincing the PCA that they are incorrect.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

No thanks, convincing HT is hard enough...

It just doesn't make sense...assume the hardlines are used instead of rubber or SS lines, j00 change the bore of the hardline is the brake pedal feel going to change? I think not.

The only explanation I could think of was what I posted.

Unless I'm missing something obvious here. (which is known to have happened in the past)

 

Thanks for all the input. Yes, I will admit that the bling factor blinds my decision making skills, well, most of the time. The brakes were bought as a package so everything came together(more you buy more you save kinda thing). My car is going back to the shop today at 10am. I guess the real problem is that the pedal continues to sink and does not firm up. Not that I was expecting a dramatic difference I figure it would at least be same as stock, which I had no problem with anyway(see bling factor above). The shop will drive my car and do whatever is necessary to remedy my issue. I did only buy 1 bottle of ATE so I may have to switch to Motul because they don't stock ATE, which is fine. They will give a screaming deal on any other fluid used if that is the problem.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by white rocket &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I guess the real problem is that the pedal continues to sink and does not firm up. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Unless there was something else wrong with your brake system beforehand Or they fugged up your MC when they did the install, your symptom is air in the lines that requires proper rebleeding.

Been there, did that. More times and in scarier situations than I care to remember.

 

Problem solved. The lines were re-bled and braking is what it should be. The pads do require a 'warm-up', so to speak, but after that it feels great. Little bit different than stock but I am quite happy with the set-up. Thanks again everyone for all your comments. When 'bling' stops dominating my decisions for buying parts and I start tracking my car(maybe next spring), I will definately look at the Cobalt line.