This is really upsetting. I was hoping that somebody might have more information on this that could help keep others safe. I'm hoping to either know the cause, or what safety equipment might have changed the outcome. If you plan to post with any intention other than that, please don't. Thanks.

From NASA Pro-Racing mailing list:

Fatal accident at Thunderhill this past Friday..a test
day. A GTA car...driven by George Smeltzer
(sp?)...somehow had some kind of altercation with an
RX7 during braking..or right before the braking zone
of turn #14...George ended up missing turn #14..missed
the tire walls..and ended up going across the dirt
into turn #8 when it was occupied by an another RX7
driver (unknown name). Both drivers didn't make it
despite the valiant efforts of Spec Miata drivers
Craig Evans and Tony Silva (and three others). Tony
is a medic..and Craig a sheriff's deputy..so they are
accustomed to handling accidents first hand. They
were the first two people to assist the crashed
drivers. Many of us at the track were pretty shaken
up. Myself..I was back at turn #4 when all of this
happened...and ended up watching the events develop
during a red flag stop right before turn #6.
Definitely an occurrence to make you think twice about
your safety equipment..and how much that Hans device
really costs.

Our thoughts and prayers go out to family and friends.

 

re-post of a re-post. I don't know who the original author is:

"2 drivers died today at Thill (unfortunately, I was one of only a handful of people to see it--2 other PDC'ers saw it as well) when Robert Smeltzer driving a GTA and another gentleman in a new generation RX7 collided just before reaching the braking zone in T14--the RX7 driver crashed, but was fine. I am not posting this as news, but because 2 good people died doing what we love and because there are things to be learned from this.

Robert was pushed onto the dirt on the left side of the track and shot across T14 to T8 at unabated speed (no slowing down on dirt and gravel). At what I would guess was close to 100mph, the GTA passed directly in front of a gentleman in another, but older generation RX7--the RX7 driver was also at full speed preparing to turn into T8. Robert shot directly in front on the RX7, and the Mazda driver died instantly. Robert's passenger side cage was pushed all the way into the middle of the cockpit.

The RX7 driver had nothing to do with the outcome of the accident--he found a huge and heavy V8 GTA car directly in front of him in T8. Robert was unable to stop a car careening across dirt and gravel at full speed, without scrubbing much if any of it off between T14 and T8.

According to the SM drivers, both broke their necks and smashed their helmets against their steering wheels. Both helmets were smashed in at their chins. Neither was wearing HANS devices.

The Thill EMT response was one of the worst I have ever seen, and proper medical attention was provided by 2 extraordinary SM drivers--Craig Evans and Tony Silva. The track safety response was extremely slow, and the corner workers had to be asked by the drivers to radio for help and an additional ambulance.

As this was a test day prior to an SCCA event, the track support and safety team was not the normal SCCA affair. With the SCCA crew in place, I have no doubt the response time would have been markedly improved.

I doubt that any EMT or safety crew could have done much if anything to save Robert--our SM drivers said that he had a faint pulse when the arrived. What worries me is that if any of were to have an accident on a test day at Thill, and our survival depended on a rapid response--well, the crew in general supporting the track today just scares me, and I'll leave it at that."

 

What is the wall like between T14 and T8? Looking at the map, if one missed T14, they'd shoot straight into cross traffic. Apparently, whatever wall is in place is totally inadequate.

 

IIRC, there is no wall, but it is a long way to travel to get from 14 to 8 across the infield. This is very shocking and sad.

 

I have never been to this track, but another poster said there is a barrier, but that the car was so far off track that it missed it completely. Perhaps a T'Hill regular can comment on the barrier situation.

WCHC is at Buttonwillow this weekend and the course is similar in that it doubles back on itself. A car going off the end of the straight (regardless of dierction) at 100 mph with limited control could easily find itself on another section of the track. As far as I can remember there are NO barriers to prevent it from happening.

 

Here's a link to a thread with a pic of that part of the track:

http://p081.ezboard.com/fdsrfo...topic

 

Looking at the picture, that is NOT a long way to slide at the kind of speeds a GTA car generates.

At the GA race at VIR, a car went into the woods, driver's left, out of the Climbing Esses, missing the tire wall (to its left) by a wide margin. Uphill on wet grasss but it was a hell of a long way...

K

 

I have to agree with you Kirk, it is definitely not as long as I remembered it.

 

Some of the Spec Miata guys who responded to the T'hill incident discuss it on specmiata.com here
http://www.specmiata.com/ubb/u....html

Barry H.

 

RIP

Sad it has to come to something like this for a worthwhile change to be made... Blatantly obvious inadequacy with those barriers there...

 

http://www.thunderhill.com/map.html

coming out of turn 13 there is no kink or anything. its a straight where ive hit 110~ in my stock gsr. so he was most likely going alot faster before the braking zone.

there was another troubling accident at thunderhill a couple months ago.

open track day for motorcycles (a favorite track in nor-cal because thunderhill has a bike friendly layout)

the biker was going way to fast going into turn 1, instead of locking up the tires and under/over steering he went into the grass and then there is a hill. he went over the hill then his bike hit a bump or something and he was thrown over the handle bars.

one of the problems was, no one say him go over the hill. (there wasnt that much dust apperantly) so the guy broke his collar bone, his arms and bruised/broke a rib or two and was laying in the grass with FULL LEATHERS and helmet of course in 100 degree heat for around an hour or so.
it wasnt until his friends noticed he wasnt around, then they started looking for him.

last time i was up at t-hill, there ambulance looked really ghetto too. the closest hospital is about an hour away.

I

 

http://forum.miata.net/ubb/ult...01574

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I was pretty close behind the RX-7 and we were right around 95 mph. The GTA car came from 90 degrees left at something over 60 if my impression is accurate and the impact was so high that both cars just disappeared from my view in a trail of debris. I will never forget the sight and sound.

A real tragedy and I am fully aware of how truly lucky I was to just witness it rather than being one of the drivers.

-ray</TD></TR></TABLE>

Can you imagine that?

Not only seeing that unfold in front of you but also knowing that a split second at any point prior could have put you in the path . . .

 

Very sad...

I never realized there was the risk from an event like this one at T-hill.

As someone who has raced on that track, I am wondering if there wasn't a mechanical or medical event that lead to the fatalities.

I can't believe a sound car could come into 500 ft of T-14 under braking or near braking, rear end a slower car, and still have the momentum to continue off track, avoiding all barriers and slam into a car in T-9.(The 400 and 500 ft markers are missing in the photo... or maybe I'm not remembering correctly.) The sets of tire tracks if in the dirt (track left) may be from a service truck or the car...??? It just doesn't seem right...

Could a stuck throttle or lack of brakes cause this?

 

The first time I drove Carlolina Motorsports Park I spotted a similar layout issue. If a driver got bumped off while setting up to brake for #1 and hooked to driver's right, there was a big hole that would allow him to cross the back straight between #9 & #10 where cars are going 100+. (see link) I'm not sure if this hole has been closed up with more barriers. Hope so.


http://www.turn1motorsports.co...g.jpg

 

I suppose you could make it from T1 across to the kink but it would be one of those "one in a million" chances since there is a lot of barriers in there. I think it would be easier to lose it coming out of the kink and come across the infield onto the front straight. It is also possible to lose brakes going into 11 and shoot across to the track between 13 and 14. This would require something like damp grass to make it but we all know how far a car can go when traveling unimpeded at 100+ MPH.

 

It gets kind of scary when you start looking at track maps.

Looking at Summit Point (http://www.summitpoint-raceway.com/SPR.HTM), it seems the only place for this to happen is at T5, across the inside of the carousel, and into the T6/7/8 area.

At VIR (http://www.virclub.com/track_info/track_layout.html), it looks like there is one place. T10, across the infield and onto the back straight - would have to be going really fast to cross the hills and grass.

 

I'll be totally honest here, this thing has me a bit freaked. Most of you don't know this, but if it wasn't for Chuck Reyes (NASA-VA Spec Miata racer) hearing my horn and paying a LOT of attention to what was going on around him, we might have suffered a very similar fate.

About two years ago I had a complete brake failure at Summit on the front straight (the first of two in that exact spot actually). I had suffered from severe brake fade in that car before, so instinctively I moved offline to the center of the track to give myself more room to brake, instead of steering off the track. What I didn't know was that my master cylinder had failed, and that I had no brakes at all. I was going about 110 with four cars in front of me, all turning in for turn 1 across my nose which no reason to suspect that I was coming at their doors. Fortunately the horn in that car worked, and it was enough to catch Chuck's attention. He hesitated just long enough to leave a hole for me to hit, and I managed to thread the needle and not hit anybody.

I guess I didn't fully realize until now that if he hadn't done that, the resulting collision could have killed one, if not both, of us. I tend to think that we are pretty much safe from most everything you would encounter on a track thanks to our safety equipment. Hell, I had the HUGE crash at VIR that led to "Bookler Flaggers" and walked away without a scratch on me.

What I really want to know is what can we do to prevent it from happening again. Yes, the track layout was obviously unsafe. Somebody *could* go from turn 5 at Summit onto turn 7 fairly easily. Somebody *could* go from turn 1 at Beaver to turns 2 and 3 as well. So with that risk in mind, what can we do to make things safer? Yes, we are racing, and there are inherant risks to what we do. However, we are fools not to do everything in our power to protect ourselves. I saw on the Miata thread that one of the two drivers on the scene practically begged everybody to get the HANS device. From the description of what happened though, I don't know if that would have made a difference...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crack Monkey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It gets kind of scary when you start looking at track maps.

Looking at Summit Point (http://www.summitpoint-raceway.com/SPR.HTM), it seems the only place for this to happen is at T5, across the inside of the carousel, and into the T6/7/8 area.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Heh, apparently we are both thinking the same way here. It sure makes that Englishtown track look like a VERY bad idea!!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crack Monkey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">At VIR (http://www.virclub.com/track_info/track_layout.html), it looks like there is one place. T10, across the infield and onto the back straight - would have to be going really fast to cross the hills and grass.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Oh, dont worry. If the grass is wet and freshly cut, and you leave south bend at a very high rate of speed, you will get there. I know.

 

Wow this is awful.

How many years has Thill been around and how many races do they have a year? I'm guessing "awhile" and "alot" so this is obviously one of those freak, chance accidents.

But still, it happens and changes should be made to prevent this from happening again. This includes extending the tire wall/barrier at the track to close that gap. Also, everyone probably needs to review their safety equipment and make sure they are comfortable with it. Hell, I only do time trials and I'm thinking about a HANS or similar device. No way I would do wheel to wheel without it.

The other scary thing, and I can only go by my interpretation of what I'm reading here, is that there are some concerns with Thill and their safety response. So yeah I guess the west coast guys need to take that into consideration when planning where to go. Out here in Ohio I can choose to go to Mid Ohio, Beaverun or Nelson Ledges - all are within an hour or two of me. I know where I feel more safe and where I don't.

The main thing though is my condolences to the family and friends of all involved. We all take that risk and it might sound "romantic" to go out doing what you love but it's still a tragedy and it still sucks.

- Markus

 

I know a HANS is a big expense, but consider...

HANS = $1,000
Powered Wheelchair = $4,000
Funeral = $10,000

Hitting a fixed object at 35 - 40mph is enough to break your neck. I bought one, I hated to spend the $$, but glad I did. It is a minor inconvenience when buckling up, and I don't even notice it while on track.

Get yourself and your loved ones a nice Christmas present this year!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Markus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The other scary thing, and I can only go by my interpretation of what I'm reading here, is that there are some concerns with Thill and their safety response. </TD></TR></TABLE>

The problem there seems to be the difference between the weekday crew and the weekend crew. As it was, the medical attention that the drivers received came from two Spec Miata drivers who were on the track at the time, and had the proper training. Also, the car fire in the RX7 was put out by other drivers, not corner workers. The Spec Miata driver who did the most is an EMT, and based on his comments the track medical staff looked confused and overwhelmed on the scene.

This past week at Watkins Glen we had to contend with the weekday "tire tester" flaggers. This resulted in a *local* red flag thrown on Monday. Yes, you read that correctly. ONE flagger decided to throw a red, while the rest of the track was green. Not yellow, GREEN! Fortunately the drivers who got the red did what they were supposed to, and stopped off to the sides, because the Corvette that missed the flag came through the stopped cars at around 130mph.

NOTHING makes you appreciate good flaggers and a good emergency response than seeing the effects of a bad one. A lot of times we forget how much we owe those guys and gals.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by speedracer33 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
This past week at Watkins Glen we had to contend with the weekday "tire tester" flaggers. This resulted in a *local* red flag thrown on Monday. Yes, you read that correctly. ONE flagger decided to throw a red, while the rest of the track was green. Not yellow, GREEN! Fortunately the drivers who got the red did what they were supposed to, and stopped off to the sides, because the Corvette that missed the flag came through the stopped cars at around 130mph.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Matt, how about you make sure you know the facts before posting?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by El Pollo Diablo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Matt, how about you make sure you know the facts before posting?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

If I said something wrong, please feel free to correct me. I was on track when it happened, but fortunately nowhere near the situation.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Track rat &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I know a HANS is a big expense, but consider...

HANS = $1,000
Powered Wheelchair = $4,000
Funeral = $10,000

Hitting a fixed object at 35 - 40mph is enough to break your neck. I bought one, I hated to spend the $$, but glad I did. It is a minor inconvenience when buckling up, and I don't even notice it while on track.

Get yourself and your loved ones a nice Christmas present this year!</TD></TR></TABLE>

I am not so sure that a HANS is the only answer. There are several forms of head and neck restraints out there which all seem to be very effective. They all have their ups and downs from a performance standpoint - even the HANS.

Point being that I don't think that any of us will be any "less safe" if we opt for one of the less expensive/alternate design units/systems.

Personally, the more I read the less I like the HANS and the more I like the D-Cel and Isaacs.

EDIT: If you used the term HANS generically to mean head and neck restraint system then please clarify that as HANS is a brand name for a specific device.