Hello to all!
I am writing this because i really love my 95 accord which by now has 150K miles on it and still runs like a champ. I was thinking on buying a newer accord but i actually want to make this one a little faster. I would like to install a turbo charger on this car BUT i have already bought another f22b2 engine and another automatic transmission with very low miles for the turbo setup. I also bought a set of four 450cc injectors.
I would like some help with the following:
- which turbocharger will be the most apropriate for this engine
- how much boost can i run without damaging the engine or transmission
- how should i prepare (maybe rebuild) the new engine and transmission for the new setup
- what hp gain will there be from all this setup

The car will be used for daily driving not for racing.
Any recommendations are welcome because i plan to put the whole setup on the car in the spring, so i have plenty of time and i don't have to rush into this.
Thank you for reading up to here and please be kind enough to give a helping thought for my new project!


Modified by odoboy at 11:33 PM 10/1/2004

 

first off, i'm a little drunk, so please excuse any misspelling, grammar errors, or completely incoherent sentences.

for your turbo setup, i would first recommend spending some time in the Forced Induction forum. learn as much as you can before boosting your accord.

before you turbo the motor, run a compression and leakdown test. this will help you decide what kind of condition the motor is in, regardless of how you think it runs. next, you need to decide your horsepower goals. boost is actually irrelevant. the capability of your motor is not based on boost, but power. 7psi with a small turbo is not the same as 7psi with a larger turbo. tuning is probably the BIGGEST factor in regards to how much power your motor can make. your horsepower goal will also determine which turbo to use. 225whp, although seemingly small to some people, is a whole lot of fun for daily driving.

most bolt on kits run T3/T4 turbos and around 7psi. this typically produces around a 75hp increase. other mods can increase this amount. however, most of these kits use only a "decent" engine managment system (EMS). uprgrading the EMS to an AEM EMS or Hondata or something similar will typically allow for better tuning, which equals better and more reliable power.

the auto tranny can be a big issue. some people have had luck with upgraded auto trannies, but it comes at a cost. most will agree that converting to a manual is a cheaper and more reliable option.

there have been people on this board who have run some really impressive numbers on stock motors, such as "accordfreak", who ran around 280whp if i remember correctly. again, this is only possible with EXCELLENT tuning.

 

if you're paranoid about breaking something (like me) even though your bottom end is fine after the compression check, you may want to look into investing in some forged pistons and rods (resleeving the engine will make it bullet proof, but that alone will run you 1k....with F22's cast iron sleeves i dont think this will be an issue if you arn't putting down major horsepower). i bought some Crower rods and am looking for some pistons, but a few of the companies that make that stuff are Crower, Pauter (im sure they make rods for F22's), WISECO, Eagle, Arias, and Race Engineering...thats all i can think of. rods and pistions can run you about $1000 so its up to you and your horsepower goals...

auto to manual swap > built auto (unless you have a 9sec auto supra )

 

Thank you very much for your help guys!
I am thinking of sticking with the auto tranny (i'm lazy ) but i wonder how much power can it handle without breaking.
My power goal is around 200 - 220hp. Is it too much too ask for the auto transmmission? Also, what would need to be modified/rebuilt in the transmission to make it stronger? (just general sutff, i'll research the details).
I have found some forged rods and pistons so i might get those if they fit in my budget. Will i have to get sleeves also if i change the pistons or they will just fit like the original ones?
I have some questions on the exhaust manifold: is there a big difference between drag manifolds (equal lenght manifolds) and normal turbo manifolds found on ebay? Also, can i modify a h22 turbo manifold to fit on the f22 engine? (i have no idea of the difference in the bolt pattern...)
I think that for right now i'll go with the stock ecu because an ESM is a little bit too pricey for right now. I happen to have a MUGEN P0A chip and a spare ECU that i can chip. Do you think that would help or it might screw things up more?
I really appreciate if anyone has read to the end of this! i am fairly new to turbo setups and I just want to know all the aspects until i do the final setup (so it's worthed all the work and money)

 

good luck man, boost isnt for everyone but if it ends up being for you, you'll have lots of fun with the car. good luck

 

200 - 220 hp is not asking too much...at all. if you treat your car with respect...i dont see why the auto tranny cant take that...for a while atleast.

read on the level 10 website about their tranny rebuild kit...believe it says it replaces the clutches and bands and other stuff that i dont know about basically you just need to bullet proof the tranny and get a strong torque convertor.

forged rods and pistons

h22 has different exhaust ports...they are equidistanced where as the f22 has stupid staggered ports (0-00-0 vs the h22's 0-0-0-0). so no, the h22 mani wont fit. in morrow, up around atlanta, south honda is selling an equilength manifold with a lifetime warrany....you cant really beat that. as far as the ebay manifolds, there are few and far in between for the f22. dont get a cheap manifold because it will end up cracking later on. lovefab i blieve makes a manifold for your car but its around $700. the type of manifold also matters....im not sure about the specifics, but i believe the log style will net more power, but throws heat back into the cylinders, where as the equilength will net you a little less power, but with a quicker spool time (AGAIN I AM NO POSITIVE THAT THAT IS CORRECT SO PLEASE CORRECT ME IF IM WRONG).

running a stock ECU on a turbo'd car is not a good idea. you need to do a massive amount of research before you start to touch your car. YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOME SORT OF FUEL MANAGEMENT AND TUNING or your car will die...some options are AEM EMS (if you have the money), Greddy E-Manage (which piggy backs your ECU), Uberdata (in which you chip your ECU and is pretty much a ghetto hondata...my choice ), and hondata. at balance performance, i believe the charge $150 and hour for tuning on the dyno....and you can figure in 2 - 3 hours the guy said...dunno about this since every car is different. with uberdata (and a wideband o2 sensor), you can use a laptop and tune your partial throttle stuff on the street, and tune wideopen throttle on the dyno.

ive been waiting for a year to do my setup...theres a lot you need to learn...so dont expect to be throwing parts in anytime soon. you still have a lot to learn....so keep reading. its good that you are asking questions so that you do learn...keep it up and good luck

 

I am planning on buying a set of roged pistons and rods that were used in a F22B1 engine which is the vtec version and my engine is the f22b2 which is the non vtec version. Do you think the pistons and rods are the same between the two engines and only the head is different? Or better said, will the pistons and rods fit on my f22b2?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by odoboy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am planning on buying a set of roged pistons and rods that were used in a F22B1 engine which is the vtec version and my engine is the f22b2 which is the non vtec version. Do you think the pistons and rods are the same between the two engines and only the head is different? Or better said, will the pistons and rods fit on my f22b2?</TD></TR></TABLE>

No,no...don't buy used internals! The slightest imperfection in them will make big fireworks out of your motor. When it comes to internals you can't take chances

 

yeah...BOOM!! but yes, the f22b's have a 85mm bore

edit: should you buy used internals...i hope you have a micrometer and a set of feeler gauges. but generally you dont want to buy used internals...BOOM!!

my feeling on this is that YOU need to do more RESEARCH before you go spend any money...you need to make sure this is what you want to do before you go throwing away a lot of money. if you do it right the first time then you wont waste money...do it shitty the first and you'll spend double than what you planned.

a turbo will require a lot of upkeep. the oil MUST be changed and you have to use the higher octane gas. do some more reading before you invest in parts, and make sure this is something you really really really want to do....i would hate for you to loose money on something that your heart is in 100%

 

all i have to say to this one is:
reasearch:
find what kit is right with you and what you want to do with your car after the fact.
also. as stated above, turbos are HIGH matinence, i change my oil every 1500-2000 miles just to keep it clean.
dont take ANY shortcuts in doing this setup...please or your going to be either very unsatisfied in the end or have very costy bills.
either way, good luck in what you do.


note*** i wouldn't turbocharge a SOHC engine...but thats just me

 

Thank a lot guys!
The thing is i found some used forged rods and pistons and the guy sais they have 15k on them. The price is really attractive (about a fourth of the new price) and the thing is i'm on a budget....i can't really spend thousands and thousands....that's why my expectations are not that high.
But, to get back to the issue: What could some used rods and pistons do that bad? I'm really good with theoretical aspects of how an engine works but i'm really bad with the practical stuff, so that's where i need your help. My dad is a mill operator so he really knows his way around this stuff....so if anything needs a little bit of rework he could definately do it.
As far as maintaining the car, i am curently using full sythetic oil and i really baby my vehicle.
I am also planning on reworking the head (adujst the valves and rework the seats). I have a leak down tester so i plan to put that to work.
Also, i ahve a quick question related to what damage will be done if i use the original ECU? As far as i know it should readjust the fule to air ratio and i have bought 450cc injectors to compensate for the fuel demand.
i know i shouldn't be taking any shortcut but i really want to know how things can go wrong so i know what to REALLY avoid doing.
Also, i have bought a pillar with three gauges, one for oil pressure, one for vacuum/boost and one for fuel-to-air ratio. Anything else in the gauges sector that i should purchase?

 

OK, i found out about why i need an EMS...because a too lean air-to-fuel mixture will heat up the pistons too much and they will end up rubbing the sleeves = DISASTER .
But please help me with the other stuff, you've been great so far!
Thanks a million!

 

problem with used internals:

you dont know how the guy treated his vehicle....no matter what he says
you dont know the condition the pistons are in...no matter what he may tell you (pictures lie)
why is he parting the engine out? hell....if he was tired of a turbo you dont part out the internals....you take the turbo off and leave in the beefy guts. so i would question that.
any defect in the rod or pistons could cause some major damage leading to more than the 1000 you would have spent on the new stuff.
your dad cand fix this stuff....its balanced and all that good stuff for a reason.

should you go ahead and get the stuff, buy a helms and a micrometer and check to make sure the pistons are within tolerence. if not DONT USE THEM. my advice to you is go with the new stuff...period.

also, i dont want to sound like im trying to kill your dream, but i've been reading up on this and trying to prepare for the last year....there have been people on here who have waited years. i really think it's a bad idea that you start throwing money at this....i really really really do. if you want some honest advice....i would say to you to read this forum....and the others ( http://www.accordinglydone.com is great too) and search the web and research this for a lonnnnnnnnnng time. in a few months you may not want to do this. just...do more research before you buy ANYTHING. ignoring that simple fact may cause harm to your engine, to you, and to your wallet (big time). learn from others....learn what they did....ask questions....learn what went wrong with their setups....learn all that, and then see if you still want to do this. ask some people how much they put into their engines and see if you're willing to spend that much. (minus the people with f22a's because they suck and can use DSM parts BOO ). again...just do a **** load of research, and when you think your ready....do a **** load more keep asking questions and searching....and i wish you the best of luck

** show love for the SOHC damnit....it has feelings too &gt;=| SOHC is sexy!!!!!!

 

u have a lot to learn, but seem to be pickin stuff up well. For you power goals, rods and pistons are a big waste of money. you can easily hit 250 or so to the wheels on the stock block. save the money spent on the block until u need it.

 

Well, madd is right in some ways....i realy think that doing something using too many shortcuts is worse than not doing it at all.
I spoke to the guy with the rods and pistons and he says that the pistons have light scuffs on the sides (i think i know from what ) so they're out of the question now. Anyways.....the engine itself was not expensive so in the case of a major failure i can live with it.
I have bought a log style manifold that fits my engine and with it i got a Garrett T25 turbo with the O2 sensor housing. I know this turbo is not that capable but i really think i'll do just fine for me....especially with the auto tranny.
Now, two important issues are left : the intercooler and the ESM.
How important is the intercooler? I know that it helps cool the air so the cooler the air, the more dense it is and you can get more in the cylinder resulting in a greater expansion =&gt; more power. Now, my question is : How much of a difference does it make in practical real life?
The other VERY important thing is the ESM. First of all, i have a P0H spare ecu for my car but i haven't found any hondata device to fit with this ECU. As far as i know this ECU is an ODB1 as well as my car.I have opened the ecu and i have found the IC that i need to unsolder and solder the hondata chip. Also, i have noticed that the hondata chips are made mostly for the manual transmission so will i have issues with the auto? What is the difference between hondata s100 and s200? What options should i buy with one of these? Or should i look for a speed shop around my area to tune the fuel table? I understood how tuning works but i have never done it so i would not want to do it myself unless i'm realy sure i know what i'm doing. I have worked on car computers before when i used an adapter to connect my laptop to my dad's VW beetle and set some parameters.
So, please advise me about the ESM and also let me know if this P0H ecu is any good or fi not , which type should i be looking for.

PS: i think if there would be a chart with the people who ask the most questions, i would be on top. Thanks a lot guys for helping me out , you're the best

 

You definitely need an intercooler. Must have. And hondata is going to be the cheapest engine management and is fairly easy to use. For your power goals though you probably could just hack it with an VAFC/SAFC. Those are really cheap compared to Hondata ect. If you have VTEC you'll want the vafc, if not get the safc (I got a nice one for cheap )

 

uberdata is basically hondata....and a lot cheaper...hondata with boost will run you like 495 or so. as always, tuning will getcha.... do a search for uberdata as the website has slipped my mind and im about to go to bed....but check it out. and yes....you need an intercooler as jdmaccord2nr said

 

JDMAccord2nr please e-mail me at odoboyusa@yahoo.com so we can talk about the safc (i don't want to fill this thread with my our discussions).

 

Guys, i have a question related to this SAFC. I have found an item called AVCR which says it is a boost controller. Does it also have the functions of the SAFC or it's just something that one might want to add to the SAFC?

 

Its just the boost controller, it can't adjust a/f

 

JDMAccord2nr, please e-mail me at odoboyusa@yahoo.com with the price and description for your safc.
Thank you!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by odoboy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">JDMAccord2nr, please e-mail me at odoboyusa@yahoo.com with the price and description for your safc.
Thank you!</TD></TR></TABLE>

I pmed you earlier, but apparently that didn't work Email sent


Modified by JDMAccord2nr at 10:53 PM 10/5/2004

 

budget setup eh?

then ems should be out of question. i recommend afc hack on 450cc injectors. depending on the model of your car, you'll need resistor box and obd1 injcetor clips.

wanna buy my afc?

 

My car si obd1 and i have bought a set of dsm 450cc injectors. Will i need to change anything in the electrical system to make these injectors work?
ash.zero, please contact me at odoboyusa@yahoo.com with your offer.
Thank you!

 

Today i have received the 4 450cc dsm injectors. On one side they have "B450L" written. I have measured their resistance and it is around 3 Ohms. I have put power to them (12v for less than 2 seconds) and i was able to blow air through them and when i cut the power off the air would stop. So their basic functionality is ok.
Now, what maintenance should be done on these? How can i clean them really well? Also, how can i test them to make sure the flow and spray pattern is ok? Is there any way to take them apart? ( i love going down to the middle of everything but i'm also good at puting everything back in working order)
I have read that these need a different resistor box or they would also work with a 10 ohm resistor in series with each injector. What would you advise about that?
Thanks guys!